When I Was Cruel Revisited

invisible Pole · Post by **invisible Pole** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:06 pm

When I originally heard it at the time of its release three years ago I was a bit put off by distorted sounds and vocals, and a strong emphasis on rhythm rather than melody.
I listened to it today for the first time in more than a year and it blew me away !! All the loops, electronic beats, twisted arrangements - everything works brilliantly. It's been often said that the albums drags and could easily do without three or four tracks. I myself didn't like "Dissolve" and "Daddy Can I Turn This" and usually skipped them. This time round I felt they were very good rockers, and they made perfect sense in the sequence of songs.
All in all I think it's a great, adventurous album with a couple of true EC classics like When I Was Cruel No. 2, Alibi, My Little Blue Window and Episode Of Blonde.

I'm really curious how you feel about the album. Did you like it at once ? Did it grow on you ?

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:05 pm

I felt much the same way, ip. I'll have to give it another listen now that I have some distance from it.

migdd · Post by **migdd** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:37 pm

I wanted to like it but it never grew on me although I listened to it a lot upon it's release. I've come back to it a few times but still have not warmed up to it. Some great songs - Cruel #2, Spooky Girlfriend, Blonde, etc, have all been done much better live over the past couple of tours, IMHO. Maybe someday. . .

King Hoarse · Post by **King Hoarse** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:13 am

I was disappointed too at first listen, but it grew fairly quickly. I loved it after about 10 spins. I don't think there's a bad song on it. However, too many of the songs have the same basic minor chord sequence, which makes it a bit tedious in places. That's why Alibi seems overlong on the record but sounded great live, I think. I also think the album as a whole would have benefitted from replacing one of the great Dust versions with When I Was Cruel no.1.

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:41 am

I haven't had a chance to say this for a while but I love the album except I don't think Oh Well and Soul for Hire sit comfortably on it.

It must be over six months since I said that

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:07 am

I have not listened to it in a while...but liked it pretty much from day one. The major reason being the great SOUND...the newness of the texture and the great guitar playing on the album. It is clear that EC incorporated a lot of the effects and sound he uses on stage into the record! That was really cool. A bit Elvis Costello Experience over it.

RinghioStarr · Post by **RinghioStarr** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:41 am

Oh, I was disappointed when I first listened to it back in 2002... and I still am.

alexv · Post by **alexv** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:44 am

It's my least-listened to EC album, and the one I most dislike. I just don't hear any memorable melodies, and find the sound jarring. By contrast, North (its Evil Twin) is a favorite. Go figure.

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:59 am

alexv wrote:It's my least-listened to EC album, and the one I most dislike. I just don't hear any memorable melodies, and find the sound jarring.

You've stumped me with that!

so lacklustre · Post by **so lacklustre** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:55 am

As mentioned elsewhere I have always loved WIWC. Special mention for 15 Petals & Tart which are great songs not yet mentioned. Like WIWCno1 as well but don't know what I would have left off.

alexv · Post by **alexv** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:47 pm

VG, I just find the record boring, and the guitar attack and general clatter of this record is not my cup of tea. To me, it's noisy without being melodic. Records like This Year's Model (to which WIWC has been compared, to EC's chagrin) had hooks. I don't hear any in WIWC, or at least none that last for an entire song. There are snippets here and there but not enough to hold my interest. Repeated listenings didn't help (I say did because this is the one EC record that I no longer ever get the urge to listen to). Strangely enough, North which is a record frequently denounced for not being melodic enough, and for having songs that sound like one another, is a particular recent favorite. I put all this down to my advancing age and general crankiness.

Chrille · Post by **Chrille** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:54 pm

I started a similiar thread about WIWC just a week or two ago, since then I've listened to it more and my current thoughts about it are that it would make a great EC album if:

* If Oh Well, and Radio Silence was removed as well as one of the dust tracks.
* 45, Tear Off Your Own Head, WIWC No.2 and Alibi was trimmed by a few minutes each.

Currently it's "just" a good/very good album. My current favourite tracks being, 15 Petals, My Little Blue Window and Episode Of Blonde.

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:17 pm

It is understandable as a precursor to The Delivery Man. Clearly, Elvis was working to produce a record with a variety of very different sounds, moods, styles. Diverse but without a real compass or outcome plan that described why it was arranged as it was, and what was the desired intent. Diverse and varied, but that can easily be considered spotty and inconsistent.

With The Delivery Man, the diversity follows a particular path, and has a predictable pentameter which, according to perceptual set theory, should make for a more palatable product. And it does. Even though I don't care much for, nor invest in country music, the Delivery Man "plan" works very well, and the juxtapositioning of remarkably different styles works extremely well, and follows a pattern.

I see "When I was Cruel" as sort of the roots of The Delivery Man, speaking ONLY in terms of the production and format of the album/listening experience. It didn't work as well as it never seems to get into a particular groove, whereas TDM does accomplish this goal.

I still like Episode of Blonde and Dust 2 better than any of the tracks on TDM. However, I like the overall effort and packaging of TDM better than WIWC. I do really like Needle Time.

Fishfinger king · Post by **Fishfinger king** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:11 pm

You like what you like! Who can really explain why?
To my ears WIWC is his best album in the last 10 years, North is execrable (except Still) and TDM is somewhere in between.
Doesn't mean I'm any more right than the rest of the fellows posting here.
Spike is the only album that doesn't sound as one (IMHO).
Relax...

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:16 pm

Okay, Frankie. But I'm "Kool and the Gang" on this whole issue. Hope you are too.

Emotional Toothpaste · Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:29 pm

WIWC is very good. Lots of good songs, but I agree with the others - Alibi too long and 2 Dust songs? I think My Little Blue Window could've been a GREAT song, but I don't care for the dull melody of the refrain.

I read somewhere that Elvis said he didn't use any vibrato in his voice for WIWC. Just straight ahead hitting of the notes. Huh? Listen to Alibi again, Elvis.

Delivery Man is a step up from WIWC. Little too much Gram Parsons sound in places, but more than acceptable. If Emmylou is okay to revisit her old beau through Elvis, thats fine with me, it sounds great. But the title track is plain boring. Come to think of it, Bedlam and The Judgement don't work for me either. Every thing else is great.

North isn't as easy a listen. But stay with it, there are some gems in there. Hard to compare it with other of his works . . . you can't. But stand outs are tracks 4 thru 8. That is the heart of that album. Listen to When It Sings or Fallen a couple times and tell me it sucks. Just tell me it sucks. Thats Elvis distilled and in his pure form. Some of his best ballads ever.

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:35 pm

I love the somewhat contentious nature of this thread..."I double dare you to tell me that this isn't a great song!!!" It points out the nature of Elvis' material as being completely non-formulaic, and it characterizes the Elvis fan as a person of strong conviction and, typically, a fairly dominant personality. More leaders. Less followers.

Once you spend a little time on the board, you see the common denominator of the Elvis Costello fan. It isn't concensus, it isn't capitulation. It is far from passivity. It is type a with a capital, triple AAA.

With the notable exception of "A Rope Leash" ... ( a cleverly disquised attempt to flush him out and get him to comment on this thread, as I recall he had strong opinions about WIWC)

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:18 am

For me..the bass line on Tart makes the whole album a success!

Honestly, if you can find a cooler bass line let me know.

Gillibeanz · Post by **Gillibeanz** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:01 am

I wasnt impressed at first either but it did grow on me. I must say I prefer those Elvis albums that knock your socks off after just a few listens, but sadly we havent had one of those in a long while. Fortunately I have so very many pure genius Elvis albums to fall back on to keep me happy!

Cant say the same for the Delivery Man - didnt like it much then and after tons of plays im still not impressed and never will be.

terryhurley · Post by **terryhurley** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:46 am

I adore WIWC - the track. The whole album is a bit hit and miss for me.

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:20 am

Fair enough alexv and well explained. I have said on other threads that you like what you like; you don't need to justify it to anybody. There are certain songs which I dislike but others tell me are marvellous. I don't necessarily agree in the same way that others don't necessarily agree with my views.

I personally find 45, 15 Petals, My Little Blue Window and Episode of Blonde melodic. However I can understand why you find parts of the album noisy without being melodic.

I too am of advancing age and crankiness.

Pidgin · Post by **Pidgin** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:23 am

I have always liked WIWC. The only song I could do without is "Tear Off Your Own Head" but the others are all great and drew my attention back to EC after many years. What I think is so awsome is the timing and release of Cruel Smile which I absolutely love and listen to quite often. I like the way the two CD's speak to each other. I'm sure I read my own meanings into it but I find it quite amusing.

I especially like "honeyhouse", 'Watching the Detective/Funny.." and I can't sit still for "Peroxide Side" loved to hear "Uncomplicated" again too.. WIWC favorites are the sassy.." tart", "my little blue window" and 'Spooky Girlfriend"

Seeing Elvis perform live, I notice and enjoy these subtle or sometimes not so subtle changes he makes to his songs. An example from the SD show was while singing "Country Darkness" EC sings, "The prison she sleeps in. The one with the open door" rather then the original, "the prison she lives in.. the one with the open door.." It's subtle but I think it's an improvement... more to the point. Or when he blends in another obscure song like, "I feel pretty".

Have I changed the subject?

MegJS · Post by **MegJS** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:38 am

Oh God...When I Was Cruel is one of my fave albums ever. It was the first Costello album I heard and it made me a crazy fan of his! I even posted my "review" on a Russian britpop site, so I'll translate it and post it here soon...

elvicos01 · Post by **elvicos01** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:23 am

Still like 45, TOYOH, My Little Blue Window, and Episode of Blonde.

Listened to the album about 4 weeks ago and I would put it in my upper third of favourite EC albums.

MegJS · Post by **MegJS** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:21 am

elvicos01

which are the two others?

Elvis Costello Fan Forum

When I Was Cruel Revisited

When I Was Cruel Revisited

WIWC revisited