Maybe now she can be excused for her version of Alison...
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... index.html
Casino ejects Ronstadt over 'Fahrenheit' praise
Tuesday, July 20, 2004 Posted: 12:19 AM EDT (0419 GMT)
Linda Ronstadt dedicated the song "Desperado" to controversial fillmmaker Michael Moore.
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Singer Linda Ronstadt was thrown out of the Aladdin casino in Las Vegas on the weekend after dedicating a song to liberal filmmaker Michael Moore and his movie "Fahrenheit 9/11," a casino spokeswoman said Monday.
Ronstadt, who had been hired for a one-show engagement Saturday night at the Las Vegas Strip casino, dedicated a performance of "Desperado" to Moore and his controversial documentary, which criticizes President Bush and the U.S.-led war in Iraq.
That dedication angered some Aladdin guests who spilled drinks, tore down posters and demanded their money back, said casino spokeswoman Sara Gorgon.
"We had quite a scene at the box office," she said.
About a quarter of the 4,500 people in the audience got up and left before the performance had finished, Gorgon said.
Before her concert, Ronstadt had laughingly told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that she hoped that the casino performance would be her last.
"I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back," she was quoted as telling the newspaper.
A statement issued by the Aladdin said Ronstadt had been "escorted out of the hotel" just after her performance and said the performer would "not be welcomed back."
"Ms. Ronstadt was hired to entertain the guests of the Aladdin, not to espouse political views," the casino said.
Ronstadt was not immediately available for comment.
Casino ejects Ronstadt over 'Fahrenheit' praise
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Who Shot Sam?
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Mr. Average
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Thankfully, I won't comment on Moore and his story-telling skills other than to say that he is a brilliant story-teller, a good filmmaker, and definitely NOT a documentarian.
Regarding the one-way street comment, I must disagree. Hollywood and the people that make it what it is (the good, the bad, and the ugly) have unfettered access to the press, and to a microphone whenever and wherever they choose. The Hollywood political venom is clearly focused on a liberal agenda and firmly against the right. Recent comments by Micheal, Whoopi, Tim, Susan, Larry David, and other fantastic artists are more than ample proof that this is not a one way street. Not even close. More like 8 lanes going left, and one dirt-paved road going right (as the verbal caravan pulls out of hollywood).
That being said, I disagree with the specifics of what the hotel did by disallowing her to return to her suite and escorting her out of the hotel. That is absolutely wrong and inexcuseable. I do not know the specifics, but unless her contract specifically delineated parameters related to political speak during the performance, and she signed the contract, then it is a miscarraige of reasonable thought to censor her in this way.
If she pulled a "Whoopi", then I might be able to reconcile the actions. But the accounts I have heard sounded somewhat innocuous...the typical ramblings of a singer who feels empowered to espouse political views because God graced her with good pipes.
Of course, if this concert was scheduled as the entertainment for the Young Republicans Annual Convention, well, that might explain the audience reaction. Other than that, I really can't imagine an audience getting that worked up over the silly ramblings of a performer foraying into areas that they really should not render opinions...performers in a the environment of a performance. I recall how a dedicated Elvis fan, now Clairequilty, was so repulsed by angry political opinions from the lips of an idol, EC, that he walked out of a show. I suppose we all have a breaking point, but I don't think Linda came close to mine, and you all know that my breaking point is pretty, pretty, pretty fragile.
Not a one-way street. And I disagree with how she was treated. Either this is a free country, or it is not. Let each individual audience decide their tolerance to nonperformance by a performer, and then choose, later, to either fire or rehire the performer. Follow the money. It works every time.
Regarding the one-way street comment, I must disagree. Hollywood and the people that make it what it is (the good, the bad, and the ugly) have unfettered access to the press, and to a microphone whenever and wherever they choose. The Hollywood political venom is clearly focused on a liberal agenda and firmly against the right. Recent comments by Micheal, Whoopi, Tim, Susan, Larry David, and other fantastic artists are more than ample proof that this is not a one way street. Not even close. More like 8 lanes going left, and one dirt-paved road going right (as the verbal caravan pulls out of hollywood).
That being said, I disagree with the specifics of what the hotel did by disallowing her to return to her suite and escorting her out of the hotel. That is absolutely wrong and inexcuseable. I do not know the specifics, but unless her contract specifically delineated parameters related to political speak during the performance, and she signed the contract, then it is a miscarraige of reasonable thought to censor her in this way.
If she pulled a "Whoopi", then I might be able to reconcile the actions. But the accounts I have heard sounded somewhat innocuous...the typical ramblings of a singer who feels empowered to espouse political views because God graced her with good pipes.
Of course, if this concert was scheduled as the entertainment for the Young Republicans Annual Convention, well, that might explain the audience reaction. Other than that, I really can't imagine an audience getting that worked up over the silly ramblings of a performer foraying into areas that they really should not render opinions...performers in a the environment of a performance. I recall how a dedicated Elvis fan, now Clairequilty, was so repulsed by angry political opinions from the lips of an idol, EC, that he walked out of a show. I suppose we all have a breaking point, but I don't think Linda came close to mine, and you all know that my breaking point is pretty, pretty, pretty fragile.
Not a one-way street. And I disagree with how she was treated. Either this is a free country, or it is not. Let each individual audience decide their tolerance to nonperformance by a performer, and then choose, later, to either fire or rehire the performer. Follow the money. It works every time.
"The smarter mysteries are hidden in the light" - Jean Giono (1895-1970)
Apparently there is more to this story than meets the eye. She also said some bad things about the casino itself, and generally behaved badly.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/ ... 39959.html
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/ ... 39959.html
Aren't you so glad that you're Livin' In the USA?Mr. Average wrote: Not a one-way street. And I disagree with how she was treated. Either this is a free country, or it is not. Let each individual audience decide their tolerance to nonperformance by a performer, and then choose, later, to either fire or rehire the performer. Follow the money. It works every time.
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Boy With A Problem
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In any case, the casino should have come up with a different rationale...and I won't be losing...I mean spending my money there any time soon!
But, Mr. Average, I gotta say I disagree with you about the roads. There's the movie road, which is more or less liberal (with strong exceptions as in the movies of Clint Eastwood and Mel Gibson...who, however, was also the original financier of "Fahrenheit 9/11" before changing his mind, but whategver) though not neccessarily progressive. There's the talk radio path, which is (until Air America came around, anyway) almost completely conservative. There's the mainline news sources, which, I'm sorry, skew to the right on everything but social issues (the CBS Iraq war coverage was only a hair less breathlessly flag waving than Fox, so I'll have none of that "Dan Rather is a flaming lefty" nonsense), where they skew ever so slightly left. There's Fox News (very right and watched daily by millions) and Pacifica radio (very left and heard daily by scores) which are laws unto themselves. There's NPR, which tries very hard to be unbiased or centrist but has to please it's increasingly liberal and pissed off audience. (The conservatives are always being told how liberal it is, therefore it becomes sort of self-fulfilling prophesy.)And there's book publishing and the Internet, which are thankfully pretty much a free for all.
By far the most powerful of those roads are the TV news and the movies -- but people don't go to the movies for their news (well, not until "Fahrenheit" anyway), so I think the right has the very, very strong edge at least when it comes to the money, which is all that truly matters in this world ofours.
And, as to the show in Las Vegas, well I've been to shows where stars have spouted off in a right wing manner and not one person complained or did much anything. I'm specifically thinking of the time that James Brown called for prayer in schools when I saw him play at the MGM Grand about seven or eight years back. Believe me, the thought of leading my fellow secular humanists in tearing down the posters of the hardest working man in show business never even crossed my mind.
He's got a right to say it loud, he's doesn't understand the separation between church and state, and he's proud.
But, Mr. Average, I gotta say I disagree with you about the roads. There's the movie road, which is more or less liberal (with strong exceptions as in the movies of Clint Eastwood and Mel Gibson...who, however, was also the original financier of "Fahrenheit 9/11" before changing his mind, but whategver) though not neccessarily progressive. There's the talk radio path, which is (until Air America came around, anyway) almost completely conservative. There's the mainline news sources, which, I'm sorry, skew to the right on everything but social issues (the CBS Iraq war coverage was only a hair less breathlessly flag waving than Fox, so I'll have none of that "Dan Rather is a flaming lefty" nonsense), where they skew ever so slightly left. There's Fox News (very right and watched daily by millions) and Pacifica radio (very left and heard daily by scores) which are laws unto themselves. There's NPR, which tries very hard to be unbiased or centrist but has to please it's increasingly liberal and pissed off audience. (The conservatives are always being told how liberal it is, therefore it becomes sort of self-fulfilling prophesy.)And there's book publishing and the Internet, which are thankfully pretty much a free for all.
By far the most powerful of those roads are the TV news and the movies -- but people don't go to the movies for their news (well, not until "Fahrenheit" anyway), so I think the right has the very, very strong edge at least when it comes to the money, which is all that truly matters in this world ofours.
And, as to the show in Las Vegas, well I've been to shows where stars have spouted off in a right wing manner and not one person complained or did much anything. I'm specifically thinking of the time that James Brown called for prayer in schools when I saw him play at the MGM Grand about seven or eight years back. Believe me, the thought of leading my fellow secular humanists in tearing down the posters of the hardest working man in show business never even crossed my mind.
He's got a right to say it loud, he's doesn't understand the separation between church and state, and he's proud.
http://www.forwardtoyesterday.com -- Where "hopelessly dated" is a compliment!
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=93
July 19th, 2004 9:05 pm
Open Letter to Bill Timmins, President Aladdin Casino and Hotel
Bill Timmins
President
Aladdin Casino and Hotel
Las Vegas, NV
July 20, 2004
Dear Mr. Timmins:
I understand from the news reports I've read that, after Linda Ronstadt, one of America's greatest singers, dedicated a song to me from your stage on Saturday night, you instructed your security guards to remove her from the Aladdin, which they did.
What country do you live in? Last time I checked, Las Vegas is still in the United States. And in the United States, we have something called "The First Amendment." This constitutional right gives everyone here the right to say whatever they want to say. All Americans hold this right as sacred. Many of our young people put on a uniform and risk their lives to defend it. My film is all about asking the questions that should have been asked before those brave soldiers were sent into harms way.
For you to throw Linda Ronstadt off the premises because she dared to say a few words in support of me and my film, is simply stupid and Un-American. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing happening. I read that you wouldn't even let her go back up to her room at your hotel! Are you crazy? For crying out loud, it was a song DEDICATION! To "Desperado!" Every American loves that song! Sure, some people didn't like the dedication, and that's their right. But neither they nor you have the right to remove her from your building when all she did was exercise her AMERICAN right to speak her mind.
Of all the things that go on in Las Vegas, this is what creates the need for serious action? What about the other half of the crowd at the Aladdin who, according to the Las Vegas Sun, cheered her when she made her remarks? Did you throw them out, too?
I think you owe Ms. Ronstadt an apology. And I have an idea how you can make it up to her -- and to the millions of Americans you have offended. Invite her back and I'll join her in singing "America the Beautiful" on your stage. Then I will show "Fahrenheit 9/11" free of charge to all your guests and anyone else in Las Vegas who wants to see it.
Mr. Timmins, as the song "Desperado" says -- "Come to your senses!" How can you refuse this offer? I await your reply.
Yours,
Michael Moore
Director, "Fahrenheit 9/11"
July 19th, 2004 9:05 pm
Open Letter to Bill Timmins, President Aladdin Casino and Hotel
Bill Timmins
President
Aladdin Casino and Hotel
Las Vegas, NV
July 20, 2004
Dear Mr. Timmins:
I understand from the news reports I've read that, after Linda Ronstadt, one of America's greatest singers, dedicated a song to me from your stage on Saturday night, you instructed your security guards to remove her from the Aladdin, which they did.
What country do you live in? Last time I checked, Las Vegas is still in the United States. And in the United States, we have something called "The First Amendment." This constitutional right gives everyone here the right to say whatever they want to say. All Americans hold this right as sacred. Many of our young people put on a uniform and risk their lives to defend it. My film is all about asking the questions that should have been asked before those brave soldiers were sent into harms way.
For you to throw Linda Ronstadt off the premises because she dared to say a few words in support of me and my film, is simply stupid and Un-American. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing happening. I read that you wouldn't even let her go back up to her room at your hotel! Are you crazy? For crying out loud, it was a song DEDICATION! To "Desperado!" Every American loves that song! Sure, some people didn't like the dedication, and that's their right. But neither they nor you have the right to remove her from your building when all she did was exercise her AMERICAN right to speak her mind.
Of all the things that go on in Las Vegas, this is what creates the need for serious action? What about the other half of the crowd at the Aladdin who, according to the Las Vegas Sun, cheered her when she made her remarks? Did you throw them out, too?
I think you owe Ms. Ronstadt an apology. And I have an idea how you can make it up to her -- and to the millions of Americans you have offended. Invite her back and I'll join her in singing "America the Beautiful" on your stage. Then I will show "Fahrenheit 9/11" free of charge to all your guests and anyone else in Las Vegas who wants to see it.
Mr. Timmins, as the song "Desperado" says -- "Come to your senses!" How can you refuse this offer? I await your reply.
Yours,
Michael Moore
Director, "Fahrenheit 9/11"
This morning you've got time for a hot, home-cooked breakfast! Delicious and piping hot in only 3 microwave minutes.
Seeing I started this here I feel obliged to add this - just in case we've all been `media spun`!
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http://news.independent.co.uk/world/ame ... ory=542990
Amid the furore, it was almost impossible to discern what actually happened in those fateful few minutes last Saturday night. According to the Aladdin's president, an expatriate Brit called Bill Timmins, Ms Ronstadt's dedication to Michael Moore - and her urging that everyone who has not yet gone to see the film do so -- pushed the audience into a frenzy of indignation. Soon they were throwing cups at the stage, storming out of the auditorium en masse and ripping down promotional posters as they stomped to the box-office to demand their money back.
"It was a very ugly scene," Mr Timmins, who was in the audience himself, told the Associated Press. Ms Ronstadt, he charged, "spoiled a wonderful evening for our guests and we had to do something about it". It was his decision to call security and have the singer escorted out of the building. She was scheduled to play just the one night, so she didn't lose any performances, but Mr Timmins made clear she could forget any future dates at his establishment. "As long as I'm here, she's not going to play," he said.
Not everyone present agreed with Mr Timmins' account, however. Paula Francis, a news anchor on a local television station, told the Las Vegas Review Journal that her experience of the concert was quite different.
"I was so stunned to read in the newspaper that anyone had a negative reaction," she said. "Everyone who was leaving when I was leaving was just thrilled. They thought it was a good concert." At the moment of the Michael Moore dedication, she said, "there were loud boos and there was quite a bit of applause. But everyone calmed down right away and seemed to enjoy the rest of the encore."
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http://news.independent.co.uk/world/ame ... ory=542990
Amid the furore, it was almost impossible to discern what actually happened in those fateful few minutes last Saturday night. According to the Aladdin's president, an expatriate Brit called Bill Timmins, Ms Ronstadt's dedication to Michael Moore - and her urging that everyone who has not yet gone to see the film do so -- pushed the audience into a frenzy of indignation. Soon they were throwing cups at the stage, storming out of the auditorium en masse and ripping down promotional posters as they stomped to the box-office to demand their money back.
"It was a very ugly scene," Mr Timmins, who was in the audience himself, told the Associated Press. Ms Ronstadt, he charged, "spoiled a wonderful evening for our guests and we had to do something about it". It was his decision to call security and have the singer escorted out of the building. She was scheduled to play just the one night, so she didn't lose any performances, but Mr Timmins made clear she could forget any future dates at his establishment. "As long as I'm here, she's not going to play," he said.
Not everyone present agreed with Mr Timmins' account, however. Paula Francis, a news anchor on a local television station, told the Las Vegas Review Journal that her experience of the concert was quite different.
"I was so stunned to read in the newspaper that anyone had a negative reaction," she said. "Everyone who was leaving when I was leaving was just thrilled. They thought it was a good concert." At the moment of the Michael Moore dedication, she said, "there were loud boos and there was quite a bit of applause. But everyone calmed down right away and seemed to enjoy the rest of the encore."
Homer: We never see Japanese movies.
Marge: Sure we do. We saw "Rashomon."
Homer: I don't remember it that way.
Marge: Sure we do. We saw "Rashomon."
Homer: I don't remember it that way.
http://www.forwardtoyesterday.com -- Where "hopelessly dated" is a compliment!
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Boy With A Problem
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miss buenos aires
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Yeah! Speak for yourself, Michael Moore!Boy With A Problem wrote:Michael Moore has gone too far.... -WRONG!!!"Desperado!" Every American loves that song!
Gives me an idea for a new documentary "Michael Moore Hates Good Country Rock".... (Actually, I think "Desperado" is a good song, but don't quote me on that. Don Henley must STILL die, even if he does sing on Randy Newman's "Faust.")
http://www.forwardtoyesterday.com -- Where "hopelessly dated" is a compliment!
Apparently in a concert in Stockholm, Bonnie Raitt dedicated a song to George W. Bush.
Bonnie Raitt's Bush remark cheered
STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) -- Winding up her summer tour across Europe, Bonnie Raitt drew thunderous applause at the Stockholm Jazz Festival for dedicating a classic to U.S. President George W. Bush.
"We're gonna sing this for George Bush because he's out of here, people!" Raitt crowed Tuesday night before she launched into the opening licks of Your Good Thing (Is About to End), a cover that was featured on her 1979 album, The Glow.
The song, written by Isaac Hayes and David Porter, has been sung by several notable performers, including Mable John and Lou Rawls.
Raitt's comments resulted in a round of applause and even whistles from among the estimated 3,000 concertgoers at the Swedish capital's annual jazz event held on the banks of the downtown Skeppsholmen island.
Swedes are skeptical of Bush, and the Scandinavian country refused to support his efforts in the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.
The Grammy-winning singer is no stranger to political activism. Her website urges fans to learn more about preserving the environment and she was a founding member of MUSE, or Musicians United for Save Energy.
Bonnie Raitt's Bush remark cheered
STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) -- Winding up her summer tour across Europe, Bonnie Raitt drew thunderous applause at the Stockholm Jazz Festival for dedicating a classic to U.S. President George W. Bush.
"We're gonna sing this for George Bush because he's out of here, people!" Raitt crowed Tuesday night before she launched into the opening licks of Your Good Thing (Is About to End), a cover that was featured on her 1979 album, The Glow.
The song, written by Isaac Hayes and David Porter, has been sung by several notable performers, including Mable John and Lou Rawls.
Raitt's comments resulted in a round of applause and even whistles from among the estimated 3,000 concertgoers at the Swedish capital's annual jazz event held on the banks of the downtown Skeppsholmen island.
Swedes are skeptical of Bush, and the Scandinavian country refused to support his efforts in the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.
The Grammy-winning singer is no stranger to political activism. Her website urges fans to learn more about preserving the environment and she was a founding member of MUSE, or Musicians United for Save Energy.
This morning you've got time for a hot, home-cooked breakfast! Delicious and piping hot in only 3 microwave minutes.
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laughingcrow
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Ronstadt-gate continues...
I really think the way that the US has polarised over Bush has become farcical now....
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn ... 459.htm?1cLAS VEGAS - One of the partners buying the Aladdin hotel-casino said singer Linda Ronstadt would be welcomed back to the property after the performer was kicked out over the weekend by current management for praising filmmaker Michael Moore.
Planet Hollywood CEO Robert Earl of Orlando, Fla., said he'd like to take Moore up on the filmmaker's offer to join Ronstadt on Aladdin's stage and sing "America the Beautiful" when Earl's management team takes control of the bankrupt casino, as early as September.
I really think the way that the US has polarised over Bush has become farcical now....
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noiseradio
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In re: liberal vs. conservative bias in the mass media, I highly recommend that one read both books by Bernard Goldberg, Bias and Arrogance and then follow up with the book What Liberal Bias? by Eric Alterman. It's important to look at both sides of this fairly complicated issue, and I think starting with the Goldberg books is best (since Alterman devotes quite a bit of space attempting to debunk much of Goldberg's case).
Suffice it to say that Goldberg argues that there is a strong liberal bias in the mass media, whereas Alterman's argument is (much like Bobster's) that the media leans slightly right on all but social issues and even then is more moderately left than pure lefty. I would suggest that Mr. Average read Alterman's book and that Bobster read Goldberg's books (or at least Bias, if you must choose one).
My personal take is that both make some convincing arguments. I won't try to sway anyone with my conclusions (though I think one author's argument is much stronger in the end), but I find this approach to be increasingly valuable. I read Bushwacked by Molly Ivins, followed by The Right Man by David Frum. They each address the policies of Bush, obviously from opposite points of view. Since so few writers even attempt unbiased analysis, I find it very informative to hear both sides make their best case.
For a good laugh, try reading one of Michael Moore's books followed by anything Ann Coulter has written. Or vice versa. Both are so comically shrill on paper that you will find yourself laughing out loud (when you're not throwing the book across the room in anger. Which book? Depends on which of you is reading. I tossed them both a couple of times).
Linda Ronstadt didn't say anything on stage to warrant that response, but thecasino is a business, not a government agency. She's an employee in a sense, and they can hire and fire whom they wish. It's not a violation of her First Amendment rights to escort her from the building or even to turn off her mic. But it's childish and ought to piss people off in principle anyway. If half the audience wants to leave, that's their right as well. Everyone should get to express themselves on these things.
Suffice it to say that Goldberg argues that there is a strong liberal bias in the mass media, whereas Alterman's argument is (much like Bobster's) that the media leans slightly right on all but social issues and even then is more moderately left than pure lefty. I would suggest that Mr. Average read Alterman's book and that Bobster read Goldberg's books (or at least Bias, if you must choose one).
My personal take is that both make some convincing arguments. I won't try to sway anyone with my conclusions (though I think one author's argument is much stronger in the end), but I find this approach to be increasingly valuable. I read Bushwacked by Molly Ivins, followed by The Right Man by David Frum. They each address the policies of Bush, obviously from opposite points of view. Since so few writers even attempt unbiased analysis, I find it very informative to hear both sides make their best case.
For a good laugh, try reading one of Michael Moore's books followed by anything Ann Coulter has written. Or vice versa. Both are so comically shrill on paper that you will find yourself laughing out loud (when you're not throwing the book across the room in anger. Which book? Depends on which of you is reading. I tossed them both a couple of times).
Linda Ronstadt didn't say anything on stage to warrant that response, but thecasino is a business, not a government agency. She's an employee in a sense, and they can hire and fire whom they wish. It's not a violation of her First Amendment rights to escort her from the building or even to turn off her mic. But it's childish and ought to piss people off in principle anyway. If half the audience wants to leave, that's their right as well. Everyone should get to express themselves on these things.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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noiseradio
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A funny example of media bias this morning:
As you must know the Democratic Convention started yesterday. Two former presidents, a former vice president and a former first lady and current senator spoke. Pretty big ticket, that. I did a little checking on the news and here was the coverage:
1. CNN was having a panel of pundits discuss the previous evening's speeches and predicting what they thought Edwards and Kerry would speak about.
2. MSNBC was discussing results of polls about how people reacted to the mahor speaches.
3. FOX News was running stories about...wildfires and the Laci Peterson case. Convention? What convention?
lol
As you must know the Democratic Convention started yesterday. Two former presidents, a former vice president and a former first lady and current senator spoke. Pretty big ticket, that. I did a little checking on the news and here was the coverage:
1. CNN was having a panel of pundits discuss the previous evening's speeches and predicting what they thought Edwards and Kerry would speak about.
2. MSNBC was discussing results of polls about how people reacted to the mahor speaches.
3. FOX News was running stories about...wildfires and the Laci Peterson case. Convention? What convention?
lol
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
Noise --
You obviously read more -- and faster -- than I! In my own defense, I do read conservative op-eds when they come my way. Actually, I don't read many purely political books at all. (Last one I read was when some gave me "Rush Limbaugh is a...", which was just too much fun not to read.)
When I sit down to read a book that's nonfiction, I'm usually going to something that's historical by someone I trust -- which means they're usually someone who's not stridently political but would probably be labelled as liberal/left by someone on the right, for example Richard Reed's terrific (and actually quite critical) book on the JFK administration or Martin Walker's (just a hair to my right) book on the Cold War. This is probably why I have yet to read Zinn's "People's History" -- when someone is THAT opinionated, I'm always a bit leary about how they'll read the situation, even if I may agree with his reading 60-80% of the time.
Sadly, I haven't had much time for sitting and reading lately of anything longer than an op-ed piece.
That being said, it would be very hard to convince me that the major media doesn't come down on the side of the status quo (and these days the status quo is pretty darn right wing) about 99.9% of the time. Just look how they treated the Dean campaign. The sheer terror that someone with a very very moderate liberal with a convicition or two just might get elected was fairly palpable.
You obviously read more -- and faster -- than I! In my own defense, I do read conservative op-eds when they come my way. Actually, I don't read many purely political books at all. (Last one I read was when some gave me "Rush Limbaugh is a...", which was just too much fun not to read.)
When I sit down to read a book that's nonfiction, I'm usually going to something that's historical by someone I trust -- which means they're usually someone who's not stridently political but would probably be labelled as liberal/left by someone on the right, for example Richard Reed's terrific (and actually quite critical) book on the JFK administration or Martin Walker's (just a hair to my right) book on the Cold War. This is probably why I have yet to read Zinn's "People's History" -- when someone is THAT opinionated, I'm always a bit leary about how they'll read the situation, even if I may agree with his reading 60-80% of the time.
Sadly, I haven't had much time for sitting and reading lately of anything longer than an op-ed piece.
That being said, it would be very hard to convince me that the major media doesn't come down on the side of the status quo (and these days the status quo is pretty darn right wing) about 99.9% of the time. Just look how they treated the Dean campaign. The sheer terror that someone with a very very moderate liberal with a convicition or two just might get elected was fairly palpable.
http://www.forwardtoyesterday.com -- Where "hopelessly dated" is a compliment!
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noiseradio
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Bobster,
I think your percentage is a hair high, but I tend to agree with the status quo getting props more often than any progressive politics. Maybe 80% overall, with social issues being the thing that drags away from the right (like a wheel on the shopping cart, if you will. It's going straight more or less, with momentum, but now it turns a couple of degrees).
I didn't mean to put you on the defensive at all. I was just thinking that if you WANTED to read cogent arguments on the other side, the Goldberg book, while flawed, is a decent read. I'm sure you keep yourself well-informed. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Mostly, tnis reading of both sides technique of mine is self-imposed intellectual honesty. It helps me; it may frustrate the hell out of others. I feel I'm pretty solidly centrist on most things, with a few conservative leanings and a few progressive leanings. I like the mushy middle a lot; I'm convinced there are few hard fast absolutes in politics. But that means I'm convinced there are a few, and I find myself at odds with both parties on several things.
The Zinn book, by the way, is worth your time. It IS opinionated, but certainly no more so than Michael Moore's films or Mel Gibson's for that matter. It has a point of view, but wheter the interpretation is slanted or not, Zinn is an original thinker. He challenges the reader to examine their preconceptions with some compelling facts. I often disagree sharply with him, but only after careful thought.
by the way, if you watched the convention coverage tonight, don't you think Edwards makes Kerry sound MUCH better than Kerry makes himself sound?
I think your percentage is a hair high, but I tend to agree with the status quo getting props more often than any progressive politics. Maybe 80% overall, with social issues being the thing that drags away from the right (like a wheel on the shopping cart, if you will. It's going straight more or less, with momentum, but now it turns a couple of degrees).
I didn't mean to put you on the defensive at all. I was just thinking that if you WANTED to read cogent arguments on the other side, the Goldberg book, while flawed, is a decent read. I'm sure you keep yourself well-informed. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Mostly, tnis reading of both sides technique of mine is self-imposed intellectual honesty. It helps me; it may frustrate the hell out of others. I feel I'm pretty solidly centrist on most things, with a few conservative leanings and a few progressive leanings. I like the mushy middle a lot; I'm convinced there are few hard fast absolutes in politics. But that means I'm convinced there are a few, and I find myself at odds with both parties on several things.
The Zinn book, by the way, is worth your time. It IS opinionated, but certainly no more so than Michael Moore's films or Mel Gibson's for that matter. It has a point of view, but wheter the interpretation is slanted or not, Zinn is an original thinker. He challenges the reader to examine their preconceptions with some compelling facts. I often disagree sharply with him, but only after careful thought.
by the way, if you watched the convention coverage tonight, don't you think Edwards makes Kerry sound MUCH better than Kerry makes himself sound?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare