Elvis on Scarlet Tide lyric change

[mood swung]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... index.html

Costello adds anti-war lyrics to song

Monday, August 15, 2005; Posted: 11:37 a.m. EDT (15:37 GMT)


NEW YORK (Billboard) -- He had a 4 a.m. wakeup call, but it wasn't necessary because Elvis Costello couldn't sleep the night before his recent appearance on NBC's "Today" with his band the Imposters and guest Emmylou Harris.

It was then that the additional lyrics to his 2004 Academy Award-nominated song "The Scarlet Tide" from the movie "Cold Mountain" came to him: "I thought I heard a black bell toll up in the highest dome/Admit you're wrong/And bring the boys back home."

He repeated this portion of the first verse of the anti-war song, which he wrote with T-Bone Burnett, with a second revision: "You know you lied/Just bring the boys back home."

The song originally related to the Civil War setting of "Cold Mountain." Costello performed the rewrite on "Today," and the updated implication was not likely lost on a Costello-friendly crowd.

"We have to speak up now," says Costello, who lives in New York when he is not on the road.

"I have looked forward to living in the true value of this country for the last 25 years, and it is an ideal we give up at our peril," he continues. "Everything that I have ever loved about America is rapidly being eroded -- the unspoiled vastness, that, at its best, can absorb such cultural, religious and regional diversity, and the basic decency -- when it isn't tainted by one or other corruption of a belief inspired by a government intent on establishing some freakish hybrid: a spin-controlled theocracy."

Costello points out that Burnett "always said 'Scarlet Tide' was an anti-fear song." He credits singer Freda Payne "for the inspiration" for the "Scarlet Tide" revision -- pointing to Payne's Vietnam-era hit "Bring the Boys Home," which he featured in his "Artist's Choice" compilation for Starbucks.

Costello has since performed the altered "Scarlet Tide" in concert.

"It is impossible to say whether every last person approves of the sentiments contained in the amended lyrics," he says. "There was a considerable roar of approval in Boston, but I was even more encouraged to receive a similar response in Pittsburgh, which I have always regarded as a more working-class town. In the 1980s I played a Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament benefit show in Barrow-in-Furness in the north of England -- where the submarine yards were the main employer -- so I know that this can be tricky territory. My guess is that it is still these towns from which the men and boys are being culled to do the dirty work. Nevertheless, the cheer was considerable."

His appearances with Harris on this tour infused a "stronger American folk music element" into his shows, better enabling Costello to "speak to people in their own musical language."

Shows included renditions of "Gathering Flowers for the Master's Bouquet," the Stanley Brothers' bluegrass classic about death. Its relevance, Costello concludes, "was perhaps not lost on some of the listeners."

Copyright 2005 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Emotional Toothpaste]

I for one don't care for the lyric change. I think its a sloppy grab for attention, not dissimilar to Madonna fake masturbating in concert.

"admit you lied"??, give me a fucking break . . . what facts does Elvis Costello have to make this claim? And lied about what exactly?

It left me flat at the end of the St. Louis concert. Its okay to have your politcal views or whatever, but christ, I didn't pay $37.50 a ticket to listen to some rock star educate me on his views in Iraq.

I don't think Elvis is qualified to be mayor of Tucumcari, New Mexico, let alone take cheap shots at W, or act like he has a much better plan to run things post 9/11.

And is he a US citizen? Is he Canadian now? Just what the fuck is Elvis?

[Who Shot Sam?]

I for one don't care for the lyric change. I think its a sloppy grab for attention, not dissimilar to Madonna fake masturbating in concert.

"admit you lied"??, give me a fucking break . . . what facts does Elvis Costello have to make this claim? And lied about what exactly?

It left me flat at the end of the St. Louis concert. Its okay to have your politcal views or whatever, but christ, I didn't pay $37.50 a ticket to listen to some rock star educate me on his views in Iraq.

I don't think Elvis is qualified to be mayor of Tucumcari, New Mexico, let alone take cheap shots at W, or act like he has a much better plan to run things post 9/11.

And is he a US citizen? Is he Canadian now? Just what the fuck is Elvis?

EC's never been averse to stating his views on current events - Shipbuilding, Oliver's Army, Tramp the Dirt Down, the list goes on. I'm not crazy about the lyrics being tacked on to The Scarlet Tide, but it has nothing to do with the sentiments he expresses. I just like the song the way it was - a pefectly balanced little gem.

I hope you're not implying that US citizens are the only ones entitled to say what they think about the Bush administration. As for lies, I'll just point you to the "evidence" Colin Powell presented to the UN pre-invasion.

Maybe Elvis should just poll the crowd before his next show to determine what political views he is allowed to express. The fact that you paid $37.50 to see him entitles you to nothing more than an evening of music.

[Extreme Honey]

It saddens me to find out the Elvis who used to make fun of americans, america and most of all, american musicians now praise America...
What the hell happened to my Elvis? HAs he become an ignorant yankee?

i thought Elvis would be the last man on Earth to become americanised!

[Emotional Toothpaste]

So what in the pre-invasion evidence that Powell presented equates to Bush telling a lie? More importantly, why would anyone give a rats ass about Elvis Costello's view on the war? Its as if he really poured over the pre-invasion evidence himself, and had all this information about what was fact and what was purposely fabricated.

Truth be known, pre-invasion, Elvis was probably round the clock playing a kazoo into a dictaphone, recording his ideas for that stinking pile of manure known as Il Sogno.


Seems easy to take cheap shots when you got 2 or 3 back-up countries you can always say is really your home. I don't know, or really care. Just came across pretty false to me. You're right, $37.50 entitles me to boo just as loudly as some may wish to cheer. If I want to hear intelligent discourse on politics, I'll turn on the tele and listen to Sam and Cokie, thank you very much.

[Who Shot Sam?]

It saddens me to find out the Elvis who used to make fun of americans, america and most of all, american musicians now praise America...
What the hell happened to my Elvis? HAs he become an ignorant yankee?

i thought Elvis would be the last man on Earth to become americanised!

thomasso, you need to read it again. Jeez Louise.

ET, here's an idea - listen to something else if EC doesn't float your boat.

[sabreman]

>>
It saddens me to find out the Elvis who used to make fun of americans, america and most of all, american musicians now praise America...
What the hell happened to my Elvis? HAs he become an ignorant yankee?

i thought Elvis would be the last man on Earth to become americanised!
>>

This couldn't be farther from the truth. EC was thinking of making Austin his base a long time ago. Most of EC's musical heros are from the US.

I do not agree with FC on politics most of the time but I am with him on this one but probably for different reasons. GWB had a agenda regarding Iraq that was mapped out prior to 9-11 by his advisors who happen to have major interests in a certian un-named country.

[verena]

I shall not meddle in the Irak pre invasion political debate. I just think that whoever writes songs has every right to say whatever they feel like. It is the privilege of listeners to decide if they buy it or not. I happen to like EC's lyrics (not all but many).

Besides, Austin is about the only place in Texas I would really want to go to. I just heard a record of Caroline Herring, my sis went to one of her gigs there and got it on the spot. Plenty of good music seems to be created Austin.

Verena

Are you finally satisfied
That I am not the
Kind of fool you expected ?

[lawngnome]

Since when does becoming a rockstar mean you cant express your politcal beliefs, be they popular or not? And, by the way, the amount of cheering every time I've heard this version played is a pretty good indication that these happen to be popular beliefs.

[oily slick]

the cheering in st louis was substantial as the calmly and tastefully delivered line was grasped instantaneously. and what i durn shame i didn't run into ET there.

[johnfoyle]

Elvis tells all -

http://www.elviscostello.com/081505.html



I want to send my apologies to all the people who had tickets for our cancelled concert at the O’Shaughessy Theatre, St. Paul on the 4th August.

This cancellation was at the doctor’s order after I picked up a serious case of laryngitis in St. Louis. Truthfully, the show in Kansas City on the 3rd August should probably not have gone ahead. I only played that night at the Uptown Theatre because it was already a replacement date for an earlier postponement.

The doctor was able to use very drastic measures that allowed me to sing for that one evening on the understanding that I rested my voice completely on the following three days.

Until my most recent world tour, I had only cancelled on three occasions in the previous twenty-seven years. None of those cancellations had been due to a vocal strain. The fact that I have had to postpone on four separate occasions during our eleven months on the road has been a cause of some concern to me.

However, I don’t want people imagining that I am having serious vocal or health problems, so I think that it appropriate to state some of the facts.

Just prior to the Spring U.S. tour, I was obliged to undergo some very serious dental surgery. Due to the nature of my schedule, this was condensed from a six-week series of appointments to a single, intense three-hour procedure. Four days later, I was on stage in Florida.

Needless to say, this has remained a factor in my occasional vocal vulnerability and this lead to a number of lost shows during the spring and summer dates.

Following, the cancellation of our Paris show in June, I sought a consultation with a top vocal specialist in London and was told in the kindest terms that I was a freak.

In the consultant’s opinion, singers half my age could not attempt a third of my schedule. Being as I am already a non-smoker and abstain from alcohol, he told me that I could only improve my vocal health was through less singing, more rest and avoiding all drinks containing caffeine, as they seriously dehydrate the throat.

He also recommended spraying water laced with one drop of dish soap into my throat between songs. So, now you know the secret of my success.

Nevertheless, as you might appreciate, a singer is the middle of such an examination is staring at the abyss. Such an investigation might reveal any number of career or possibly life-threatening conditions.

Thankfully, I merely had a slight swelling of the vocal cords that has occasionally been aggravated during a relentless schedule of concert and television appearances. A summer break now approaches and I will be properly rested before singing again.

I take my responsibilities very seriously and hate to disappoint people who have been good enough to pay to hear us play but this is to concentrate solely to a handful of disappointing evenings. I must acknowledge The Imposters and all of our touring crew and also management and agency representatives who have made the rest of this long tour what it has been.

We have played from Adelaide to Assissi, from Buxton to Berlin and from Copenhagen to Cain’s Ballroom, Tulsa. Along the way we had had wonderful guest artists. Wanda Jackson joined us at Cain’s Ballroom for a great version of “Cryin’ Time” and Hubert Sumlin showed how to really play Howlin’ Wolf’s “Hidden Charms” in both New York and Memphis. John McFee, who played guitar and pedal steel on both, “My Aim is True” and “Almost Blue”, joined us for a good part of the set at the Wiltern Theatre, Los Angeles in March.

For one week - while Steve Nieve was away in London recording his opera - David Hildalgo deputised on guitar and viola and the shows then included David’s songs “A Matter of Time”, “Mas Y Mas” and the Grateful Dead’s “Bertha”.

In July, both the Brodsky Quartet and former Bhundu Boys, guitarist, Rise Kagona were our guests at Kenwood House, London. Rise inspired a unique version of “The Scarlet Tide” and we closed the show with a joint Brodsky Quartet/Imposters version of “God Give Me Strength”.

If I were asked to name my favourite show of the tour, it would probably be the following night at the StaatsOper in Vienna as part of the Wien Jazz Festival. It’s hard to say why but everything fell into place that night. We played songs ranging from “Hurry Down Doomsday (The Bugs Are Taking Over)” to “No Wonder”.

The end of that final week in Europe saw us make our Turkish debut at the Istanbul Jazz Festival and glimpse some of the beauties of that remarkable city. Our travels have taken us to several other towns for the first time and the welcome he received has only made us look forward to our return. These places include; Bilbao, Knoxville and Sioux Falls.

Occasionally, the circumstances were more unexpected. One evening, we found ourselves playing the ivy-covered courtyard of Hitler’s unfinished Congresshaus, a mere flaming torch’s throw from the Nuremburg Rally Grounds. A small but enthusiastic crowd redeemed the rather oppressive and sinister feeling of the venue.

Not every show can be a success. The indifference that we have come to expect in England was evident at Glastonbury but this contrasted sharply with the charged atmosphere of the 17,000 people spilling out of an open-side marquee at the Wechter Festival in Belgium. We also headlined the Park Pop Festival in Den Haag, which attracted a crowd in excess of 300,000 people.

Occasionally, life does imitate art and we arrived at a big-top venue in Konstanz, Germany to find ourselves on the bill with a puppet theatre, a detail I will include for all you “Spinal Tap” fans out there.

Beginning in Atlanta on the 16th July, the Imposters and I were joined for eleven concerts by Emmylou Harris as a guest vocalist and also by Larry Campbell who plays fiddle, mandolin and electric and pedal steel guitars.

Larry must take credit for his wonderful musical contribution. It was great to have another high harmony singer on the stage to compliment Davey Faragher one the song on which Emmy took the lead such as, “One of these days”. It was a real joy to gather around backstage and rehearse the vocal harmonies on songs like Jimmy Martin’s “You don’t know my mind” and Bill Anderson’s “Must you throw dirt in my face”

Obviously, our set featured the songs on which Emmylou sang from “The Delivery Man” but also included tunes from “King of America” and some songs that are more than fifty years old, such as the Stanley Brothers’ “Gathering Flowers For The Masters’s Bouquet”, for which Emmy, Davey and I gathered around one ribbon microphone with just guitar and fiddle accompaniment.

At our last date of the tour, at the Newport Folf Festival, we were supposed to reprise our performances with Emmylou but unfortunately she had to return to Nashville because of a family emergency. We were happy to find that Gillian Welch and David Rawlings were deputising that afternoon and following their excellent set they were kind enough to join us on three songs that we rehearsed backstage, shortly before the show.

The Imposters and I would like to thank Emmylou (and Larry too) for making these last few days on the road such a tonic to the spirit. We send our very best regards to those of you who attended any of our shows and if we missed you out, for any reason, we hope we see you again.

At 2am on the 21st July, I woke up and re-wrote a few lines of “The Scarlet Tide” to reflect the frustration that I sense with the disastrous and dishonest prosecution of a war, an action that might have been thought treasonous in saner times.

The original text adapted an arcane idiom:

“I thought I heard a black bell toll

A little bird did sing;

‘Man has no choice when he wants everything’”

Little birds are always telling you something in old folk songs.

At 5.15am, we were on stage at the “Today” show rehearing the new lyrics, the repeated verse of which reads:

“I thought I heard a black bell toll upon the highest dome

Admit you lied

And bring the boys back home”

You can never be certain of whether people will take things in at one hearing but there seemed to be a discernibly positive reaction at Rockerfeller Plaza.

The tour continued through Wallingford, CT., Boston, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Ravinia, near Chicago – where 13,000 attended and people danced at the normally reserved summer home of the Chicago Symphony – then to Dayton and Columbus in Ohio and finally to Wolftrap just outside Washington D.C.

Every show approached just under three hours, with a finale that included the Rolling Stones’ “Wild Horses”, Bob Dylan’s “When I Paint My Masterpiece” and Nick Lowe’s “(What’s So Funny About) Peace Love and Understanding”.

The final song of each concert was “The Scarlet Tide” and I has greatly encouraged by the cheers that these new lines received and was touched by the personal thanks that I received from individuals at the stage door regarding the change and the sentiment contained within them.

Naturally, not every one was in agreement. There were a few competing boos in Columbus and a woman reportedly stormed out in Dayton, vowing to never to return to one of my shows but I would regard anything else as “Un-American”.

I believe it is irrelevant whether I am an outsider, presuming to comment on American foreign policy or if I make my home in New York City. If such policies contribute to the instability of the world then they must be questioned just as surely as the berserk perversions of theology that are used to excuse mass murder.

Love and forgiveness are much harder to hold on to in these days but it seems as if this pursuit of vengeance, in the guise of justice, is doomed to fail, so long as our governments continue to be so selective about the despots they decide to depose and the people they presume to liberate.

There are just as many tyrants and repressive regimes that our leaders flatter, placate and, in many cases, finance and arm only to turn upon them, when it is politically expedient. It is then that the former ally or convenient bulwark is demonised and attacked with awesome military might. It is then that the dire and unnumbered civilian casualties mount.

It is also then that our own working men and women are asked to fight that dirty, thankless fight against an idea rather than a recognisable military foe.

It is also when the shameful waste of their sacrifice is shielded from eyes presumed too sensitive to accept either this sad truth or the shabby lie that caused these deaths.

On the 10th July I read a newspaper reminiscence of a young woman missing after the London bomb attacks. Her friends and family described her joyful spirit and mentioned that they had last seen her so elated on the previous Saturday night after she had attended our show at Kenwood House. On the following Tuesday, she was named as one of the victims.

While it is quite possible for us to imagine the life of such a person and just as impossible to fathom the sudden shocking loss for her family or the insane actions of her murderers, we seem unable to bring the other victims of this conflict into focus; the unnamed, the unnumbered and apparently unlamented, “over there”.

Fifty-two people are killed in London and we know all about them in a matter of hours. Fifty-two, supposedly liberated, people die in Iraq, two days later, and it barely makes a footnote in the paper next to latest blockbuster movie ad. Meanwhile, more foot soldiers fall in behind the standard of one or other pampered son of a dynasty.

One can only find humility in the face of such events, while hoping that our leaders resist the blasphemy that our self-interest is divinely ordained.

We are living in a time when it is our mutual responsibility to think and to question. If a song can provoke or make anyone feel less alone in their anxiety and despair then it is just a tiny part of that process. Nothing more. Nothing less. You can always turn your head away and disagree.

[normabuel]

It is EC's right to say what he wants about politics and he does so at his own peril. (Remember the Dixie Chicks? And the Rolling Stones recent back pedalling?) However, being that he was smack dab in the middle of NYC when he first changed the lyric, it is probably a safe bet that a little Bush bashing would also be a crowd pleaser. (It was, I was standing in front of him when he first sang it.)

In any event, if you look at his previous dabbles into political speech -- Shipbuilding, Pills & Soap, Tramp Down the Dirt, Peace in Our Time, and Bedlam, for example -- his political leanings should be transparent to all. That he would take a stand against Bush should surprise no one.

Let's face it, if you are a moderate or conservative, you just have to hold your nose when your favorite rock musicians wade into political speech. Unless you like Ted Nugent or Kid Rock.

[mood swung]

well said, Elvis.

but I liked this part best:

Our travels have taken us to several other towns for the first time and the welcome he received has only made us look forward to our return. These places include; Bilbao, Knoxville and Sioux Falls.

yahoo!!

[normabuel]

Maybe EC was referring to Tony Blair.

Or Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. Of course, he's in no position to bring any boys back home.

[Extreme Honey]

It saddens me to find out the Elvis who used to make fun of americans, america and most of all, american musicians now praise America...
What the hell happened to my Elvis? HAs he become an ignorant yankee?

i thought Elvis would be the last man on Earth to become americanised!

thomasso, you need to read it again. Jeez Louise.

ET, here's an idea - listen to something else if EC doesn't float your boat.

I understood perfectly well, maybe it is that I was poking a bit at the USA that made you state that, Who shot sam?. I read it again, twice, to see if I was wrong about something. My comment was based on a few lines he stated about the USA, not about his political speech, rather less important. And yes, EC flows my boat, or else I wouldn't buy all of his CDs.

Favourite lines from a smart speech:

Naturally, not every one was in agreement. There were a few competing boos in Columbus and a woman reportedly stormed out in Dayton, vowing to never to return to one of my shows but I would regard anything else as “Un-American”.

If such policies contribute to the instability of the world then they must be questioned just as surely as the berserk perversions of theology that are used to excuse mass murder.

Love and forgiveness are much harder to hold on to in these days but it seems as if this pursuit of vengeance, in the guise of justice, is doomed to fail, so long as our governments continue to be so selective about the despots they decide to depose and the people they presume to liberate.

There are just as many tyrants and repressive regimes that our leaders flatter, placate and, in many cases, finance and arm only to turn upon them, when it is politically expedient.

It is also then that our own working men and women are asked to fight that dirty, thankless fight against an idea rather than a recognisable military foe.


Fifty-two people are killed in London and we know all about them in a matter of hours. Fifty-two, supposedly liberated, people die in Iraq, two days later, and it barely makes a footnote in the paper next to latest blockbuster movie ad. Meanwhile, more foot soldiers fall in behind the standard of one or other pampered son of a dynasty.

One can only find humility in the face of such events, while hoping that our leaders resist the blasphemy that our self-interest is divinely ordained.

We are living in a time when it is our mutual responsibility to think and to question.

My opinion has been changed about Elvis (There were a few competing boos in Columbus and a woman reportedly stormed out in Dayton, vowing to never to return to one of my shows but I would regard anything else as “Un-American”.).

[Who Shot Sam?]

I understood perfectly well, maybe it is that I was poking a bit at the USA that made you state that, Who shot sam?. I read it again, twice, to see if I was wrong about something. My comment was based on a few lines he stated about the USA, not about his political speech, rather less important. And yes, EC flows my boat, or else I wouldn't buy all of his CDs.

Poke away, man. Be my guest. I'll even get out my pitchfork and give you a hand.

The other part wasn't directed at you, but at Emotional Toothpaste.

[Extreme Honey]

I understood perfectly well, maybe it is that I was poking a bit at the USA that made you state that, Who shot sam?. I read it again, twice, to see if I was wrong about something. My comment was based on a few lines he stated about the USA, not about his political speech, rather less important. And yes, EC flows my boat, or else I wouldn't buy all of his CDs.

Poke away, man. Be my guest. I'll even get out my pitchfork and give you a hand.

The other part wasn't directed at you, but at Emotional Toothpaste.

...i was wondering who ET was...

[alexv]

EC does indeed have a right to express his views wherever he wishes, and concert goers can get upset with them if they wish, but really can't deny him the right to use whatever venue is available to him to express them.

Having said that, once his pearls of wisdom are sent to us, we have a right to analyse them with the same vigor we apply to his lyrics. So here's my reaction.

In the Billboard post, the one that got Thomasso all upset thinking that EC was loving those "ignorant yankees", I was struck by the following:

"I have looked forward to living in the true value of this country for the last 25 years, and it is an ideal we give up at our peril," he continues. "Everything that I have ever loved about America is rapidly being eroded -- the unspoiled vastness, that, at its best, can absorb such cultural, religious and regional diversity, and the basic decency -- when it isn't tainted by one or other corruption of a belief inspired by a government intent on establishing some freakish hybrid: a spin-controlled theocracy."

A strangely inarticulate paragraph from our hero, but assuming it's verbatim, it's nice to know that he has been pining for our fair land for the last 25 years, although I am troubled by his feeling that our "unspoiled vastness" which absorbs our various diversities, and our basic decency are being eroded and tainted by our current government's establishment of a "spin-controlled theocracy(?)" in Iraq.

I know he's a smart guy and all, but how has he managed to determine that our vastness, decency and diversity are being destroyed by two terms of a Republican administration. I think we have survived worse. Is he aware that we survived Nixon? and Andrew Johnson? and Warren Harding? and Calvin Coolidge? His ability to come to grasp with our country's vastness in such a short time takes me back to Sting's old comment about how he knew america better than americans since he had toured the whole country. I always got a laugh out of that one. Yeah, boys, one day in Spokane. Got it, now for the Southeast. Idiot!! EC seems to be taking in some of those Summner fumes.

But it's not surprising really, since later in the interview he credits Emylou's "stronger american folk-music element" with allowing him to speak to americans in their "own musical element". I don't know what century EC is living on, but if you travel around America today you won't be aided in your ability to communicate with the common folk by Emylou's legendary voice stylings. Folk music is all but irrelevant in our society these days. In fact folk music hasn't really been about "folks" since at least the 50s when it was hijacked by educated hipsters. If he wants to connect, maybe he can try rap, or Sting's music.

Then we get his tour summary in his web site, which coincidentally brings him back to Thomasso's heart, apparently due to the following comment:

"Naturally, not every one was in agreement. There were a few competing boos in Columbus and a woman reportedly stormed out in Dayton, vowing to never to return to one of my shows but I would regard anything else as “Un-American”."

Now, if you interpret this remark a la Thomasso, he must be saying that the hysterical reaction of the lady from Dayton is a typical "american" reaction, i.e. intolerant and narrow minded. If that is the meaning, then I am puzzled, since this anti-americanism contrasts markedly with the sentiments expressed in the Billboard article about vastness, diversity, and decency. And Does anybody in Ohio.... have that kind of power to make our hero forget our decency and vastness? Or maybe he's just trying to say, that he expected some dissent, since an absence of dissent would be unamerican, which is not really a dis at America, which should be troubling to Thomasso. Which is it, I wonder?

And then we get the now common plea to equate murder and murder:

"Fifty-two people are killed in London and we know all about them in a matter of hours. Fifty-two, supposedly liberated, people die in Iraq, two days later, and it barely makes a footnote in the paper next to latest blockbuster movie ad. Meanwhile, more foot soldiers fall in behind the standard of one or other pampered son of a dynasty."

EC is puzzled by our inability to see that all 104 people in his example deserve equal mourning. I am not. The fifty-two in London were presumably English or permanent residents of england. The 52 killed in Iraq, are either soldiers for whom death is always a factor, or people who attack soldiers trying to kill them, or innocent iraqui civilians caught in their country's awful mess, which did not start by the way with the american invasion, but started much earlier with the mass killings of the deposed dictator, to which londoners have thankfully not been subjected. Why should it surprise EC that in London people care more about their 52 than about the Iraqui 52? Is that a sign of moral depravity or chauvinism? Does he think that the papers in Iraq, will chronicle the lives of the London 52 with the same intensity as their own victims? This is the now standard approach towards criticizing the West: you set up an unrealistic standard of behavior and when it is not met, you demonize the west. Bullshit I say.

Oh, for the record, I started out as a lukewarm supporter of the war in Iraq because I assumed that the people of Iraq would accept temporary american occupation of their country as the price to pay to get rid of a madman who had tortured them for years. Events in the past year have convinced me that I was wrong, and that there is a sizable element in that country who hate what america and the west stand for so much that no amount of effort will get them to lay down their arms. I am convinced now that it was a mistake, and that we have to find a way out of there, and leave them with some semblance of order and allow them to live the way they want to live. So I am now an opponent of the war. Having said that, I am also an opponent of idiotic generalizations about america and americans, regardless of their source.

[whar]

Just prior to the Spring U.S. tour, I was obliged to undergo some very serious dental surgery.

NO! The gap! It's going away!

[RinghioStarr]

And then we get the now common plea to equate murder and murder:

"Fifty-two people are killed in London and we know all about them in a matter of hours. Fifty-two, supposedly liberated, people die in Iraq, two days later, and it barely makes a footnote in the paper next to latest blockbuster movie ad. Meanwhile, more foot soldiers fall in behind the standard of one or other pampered son of a dynasty."

EC is puzzled by our inability to see that all 104 people in his example deserve equal mourning. I am not.

I don't see where he's saying that. He's talking about media. And people's feeling are also determined by what you're aware of, and the media tends to determine your awareness.
Strangely the media, when they want, underline what there is some dictator that is applying mass murder on some population, and everybody goes boo... And everybody goes "get rid of him"! Other times not.
Other times - for example when your nation is involved in what should haven been a liberation war but is actually a mass murder... Oh, strangely the newspapers, the radios, and whatever, are not keen in underline the fact that there are civilians and innocent victims "in that war in that far foreign country overthere"... And that they are caused by your own country.

Oh, I suppose it's just a case, isn't it?

The fifty-two in London were presumably English or permanent residents of england. The 52 killed in Iraq, are either soldiers for whom death is always a factor, or people who attack soldiers trying to kill them, or innocent iraqui civilians caught in their country's awful mess, which did not start by the way with the american invasion, but started much earlier with the mass killings of the deposed dictator, to which londoners have thankfully not been subjected.

90% of war casualties are civilians. This is a widely known fact. So, I don't know if Elvis checked that fact he's referring about, but there is a "slight" percentage of probability that they *do* were civilians.

And by the way, this war just substitued Hussein's mass-killings with another mass-killing.

In iraq died in this war between 20.000 and 100.000 people (these are the two edges of the various valuations).

Before that there was an embargo who killed dozens of thousands of people, woman, aged ones and children included.

In Iraq used to die a couple of "twin towers" of children every month.
It was a case that our newspapers didn't talk about that?

"Oh, how can't they love American and European people? Ungrateful Iraqi people!".

That's all I have to say about it.

Goodbye.

[whar]

Can't we all just mourn the gap?

[so lacklustre]

I've always been scared of gaps. I think it goes back to childhood trips to London on the underground (subway) where the booming announcement "MIND THE GAP" would scare me witless. I was looking all around for the GAP but luckily it never got me.

[verbal gymnastics]

Can't we all just mourn the gap?

Say it ain't so!

I don't think there's anything to mourn is there whar? I'm sure we would all have noticed if our hero had had cosmetic dental surgery.

[Emotional Toothpaste]

Good posts Norma Buel and excellent analysis of evlis 'comments Alexv.

I'm certainly not a fan of this war. I was also a lukewarm supporter going in, but now think we've worn out our welcome. On my wifes side, we have a family member who is in Samarra right now and drives an M-1 tank. It has been hit twice in the last week by roadside bombs. Thankfully he wasn't injured, but one of his crew members was seriously injured. He reported to us just yesterday that "nothing good is happening, nothing is being rebuilt, and the locals want us out". For us to assume that Iraqis want a westernized style of living / freedom, and by god we're going to make sure they get it, seems terribly presumptive.

Certainly, I too want to see the boys "brought back home". But the "admit you lied" was a little tacky in my opinion. Sure he has a right to sing/say whatever he wants. That has never been in dispute. This is America. But the "admit you lied" comes across a little strong. While I did not vote for Bush, and I have strong questions about this administration, not just the war in Iraq, but other policy as well, I don't think its appropriate to be calling anyone a liar unless I have some pretty strong facts to support it. Thats all.

[mood swung]

SLL, The Gap might not get you but The Undertoad will.