AMERICAN IDIOT

[mood swung]

ditto that from another Old Titster.

[A rope leash]

My guess would be that most people on the board figure WHAR and I deserve each other.

I'd just like to see some real quality posting from WHAR, not just responsive diarrhea.

Thanks, Noise, that was some funny shit. Noise Radio is a worthy adversary, one who carries actual ammunition. WHAR's argument's are like a spun-drunken child's: no I'm not, you are, because I said so.

Thanks to everyone who has come out to witness my slapping of this sabotuer.

Thanks to everyone else as well, even for tolerating me as I depressingly cry and whine about the tumultuous, varied, and heartbreakingly human tragedies that have befallen me as I journey through the mysterious, dream-filled custard doughnut I call my life...

...and now, an appropriate song:

Unreal City
Under the brown fog of a winter noon
Mr. Eugenides, the Smyrna merchant
Unshaven, with a pocket full of currants
C.i.f. London: documents at sight,
Asked me in demotic French
To luncheon at the Cannon Street Hotel
Followed by a weekend at the Metropole.

At the violet hour, when the eyes and back
Turn upward from the desk, when the human engine waits
Like a taxi throbbing waiting,
I Tiresias, though blind, throbbing between two lives,
Old man with wrinkled female breasts, can see
At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives
Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea,
The typist home at teatime, clears her breakfast, lights
Her stove, and lays out food in tins.
Out of the window perilously spread
Her drying combinations touched by the sun's last rays,
On the divan are piled (at night her bed)
Stockings, slippers, camisoles, and stays.
I Tiresias, old man with wrinkled dugs
Perceived the scene, and foretold the rest—
I too awaited the expected guest.
He, the young man carbuncular, arrives,
A small house agent's clerk, with one bold stare,
One of the low on whom assurance sits
As a silk hat on a Bradford millionaire.
The time is now propitious, as he guesses,
The meal is ended, she is bored and tired,
Endeavours to engage her in caresses
Which still are unreproved, if undesired.
Flushed and decided, he assaults at once;
Exploring hands encounter no defence;
His vanity requires no response,
And makes a welcome of indifference.
(And I Tiresias have foresuffered all
Enacted on this same divan or bed;
I who have sat by Thebes below the wall
And walked among the lowest of the dead.)
Bestows on final patronising kiss,
And gropes his way, finding the stairs unlit...

-T. S. Eliot, The Wasteland

[noiseradio]

Rope,

Nice choice of verse. And thanks for the props. Right back at ya.

[selfmademug]

Rope,

Nice choice of verse.

Yes, but it can't touch this for appropriateness to this thread:


Toilets [if poets wrote poems that were anagrams of their names]
by T.S. Eliot

Let us go then, to the john,
Where the toilet seat waits to be sat upon
Like a lover's lap perched upon ceramic;
Let us go, through doors that do not always lock,
Which means you ought to knock
Lest opening one reveal a soul within
Who'll shout, "Stay out! Did you not see my shin,
Framed within the gap twixt floor and stall?"
No, I did not see that at all.
That is not what I saw, at all.

To the stall the people come to go,
Reading an obscene graffito.

We have lingered in the chamber labeled "Men"
Till attendants proffer aftershave and mints
As we lather up our hands with soap, and rinse.



[really by Francis Healey-- see more here, it's fucking priceless:
http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0005/anagram/ ]

[selfmademug]

Sorry (she said, shamlessly hijacking the thread....) two more, cause these would be easy to miss, and you shouldn't.

Two Haiku
by Basho


Has B.O.

Swamp mist, eyes water—
Why is that monk still wearing
Winter robes in June?


Ah, SOB

A yellow snake eats
The robin's lone precious egg—
You motherfucker

[Gillibeanz]

So does that mean your take on Lucinda Williams and Emmylou Harris on The Delivery Man is probably suspect? It was a minority opinion, after all...

Not at all Noise, and actually I think you will find itwas 50/50 on that one -plenty on here who shared my view of the drunken old biddy impersonators!

[Copenhagen Fan]

Apropos Green Day, I was at a Jam Night here in Copenhagen and met a drummer who said he was into PUNK. Of course he was younger than I, maybe in his 20's...I got pretty excited when he mentioned punk because I thought we could jam, but then he said that his main influence was Green Day, I said..:"Jesus". He had no knowledge of real punk music, no Dead Kennedys, no Black Flag, no Circle Jerks, no Minutemen, no X, no Sex Pistols nothin'...just Green Day. I have to say that they are pretty much POP music and that's fine. But to call them punk is kind of an insult in my book.

I told him to listen to some Agent Orange, and TSOL which are probably some of the main influences of Green Day. Of course he was clueless.

It all goes to show that music today..especially in Europe is totally POP in it's nature. Only bands that are on MTV make it big. That sucks. In a world where people think Robbie Williams rocks, we are doomed.

Maybe I'm a grumpy old fuck who is out of touch???

[A rope leash]

With wrinkled dugs?

[pophead2k]

Cope, as someone who was into all the bands you mentioned back in the day, I totally understand your frustration at the co-opting of the term 'punk'. I think Green Day are a great punky-POP band and no, I wouldn't classify them as punk either. Unfortunately, the media need a tag to hang on every artist. Because Green Day play loud, short songs and Billie Joe has a sneer in his voice, its punk to them.

To further confuse the issue, many believe punk to be more of an attitude than a musical style. Were the Replacements punk? If you're going by attitude, they most definitely were. The Pixies were louder and their music had less structure, but it always felt very calculated. In other words: anti-punk. Music terms are tough, because they mean different things to different people. I'm just enjoying the Green Day album for what it is: a good, loud, catchy record with some thoughtful lyrics.

[Copenhagen Fan]

POP HEAD...great comments. I totally agree! When I hear the word PUNK I expect it to be true to the style. The Replacements are one of the coolest bands I've heard, but still not what I would call Hard Core Punk. I even consider the Sex Pistols as a ROCK and ROLL band, in a way, even though they were one of the first punk bands. For me..PUNK developed into the Hard Core Punk scene of L.A., Philly and D.C. style and everything else just kind of belongs in another category!

I can see you're from New Orleans...COOL town. I will never forget being down there and then totally spontaniously seeing Warren Zevon (whom I knew nothing of at the time, except Wherewolves of London, play at Tippetina's, where I got obsessed with his music.

[pophead2k]

Wow, I would have loved to have seen WZ at Tip's. I did see Graham Parker there a few years ago and had a similar experience. It was cool because Bob Andrews, from the Rumour, lives here now, so he joined Graham onstage for a few numbers. Next musical epiphany: Elvis at HOB in March.

[Bad Ambassador]

[They need to grow up and accept their age when it comes to their image.

To both you and WHAR (who hasnt even listened to the album so cannot possibly contribute or give a view) you seem to be outnumbered here which means you are in the minority - which should tell you something.

That I have a different opinion of a record to others. Don't start on the whole popularity cobblers otherwise Elvis would be completely sunk, because his fans are in the minority in the music consuming world. Thanks for explaining that being outnumbered puts you in the minority, it needed clearing up.

As to the quote above BA dont tell us what we should or shouldnt like. Music is ageless - there are no restrictions as to how old you are to what you should like, thats called censorship and bigotry - not cool.

For all your declarations of my immaturity, thanks by the way, your sentence structure doesn't exactly confirm your senior position to talk to me like that. If you take your sub-clause out you end up with 'Music is ageless not cool'. Useful.

Maturity gives us more experience and therefore we are more qualified to judge what WE do or do not like. I suggest you grow up a bit before you make stupid comments like that.

It wasn't a stupid comment, it was a valid opinion about a band. Whatever I happen to think about WHAR, I don't see how you telling me to grow up and terming my comments stupid is any less offensive. I was clearly under the misapprehension that this board would only attract intelligent people on the basis of Mr Costello's verbose tendencies. I had no issue with anyone here, and because this is just a message board, to waste a bit of time on every now and then, I've not got the inclination to particularly dislike you.

[A rope leash]

http://www.theflasharchive.com/f/f-149.htm

[Gillibeanz]

BAD AMBASDOR: Yeah yeah - whatever Mr big intellect......

[Bad Ambassador]

http://www.theflasharchive.com/f/f-149.htm

That, on the other hand, is funny.

[A rope leash]

Anyway, about Green Day being "pop punk", I think there's no doubt about that. It's overproduced, solid rock and roll with a punk attitude, stamped with the MTV seal of approval. That's really no different from any other "popular" band. I just happen to like this one.

Sure, Elvis came up in the punk era, but he tends to shun that perception, preferring to recall New Wave as his domain. What Green Day has done is to capture the essence of punk, and form it into a slick, clean, tangible rock and roll experience, easily grasped by anyone.

AI reminds me of Thick as a Brick, in that it is many songs, yet somehow all of one piece. I wonder if Green Day performs this whole thing intact in concert....?

[Otis Westinghouse]

Impressed at your ability to type out large chunks of The Wasteland from memory, Rope.

It's interesting how my nearly 12 year od son is into Green Day and some other contemporary stuff, yet the two bands he's most listening to are Ramones and Led Zeppelin. For him and his mates they view music as a vast ocean to explore, and the fact that CDs were recorded 30+ years ago is no barrier. And of course he has me as an influence (hence his admiration for Tom Waits). A friend of his has a Clash loving uncle, so he's well up on that. Now that teenagerhood is a permanent state of mind, kids can easily be into stuff we were into as teenagers.

[A rope leash]

uhm, yeah...totally from memory...!

[A rope leash]

A lovely piece, though, don't you think? I'm glad I looked it up...

[wehitandrun]

Holy s, I missed a lot here.

As a genius on pop punk- I tell you that the only band worth listening to is Saves The Day, simply because they are fronted by one of the greatest lyricists I have ever heard of (not even Elvis has pumped so much into one album).

They are called pop punk, but they really only have one pop punk album. They have never released two albums that are alike, and they are one of my favorite bands of alltime.

Actually, they were on a big tour with Green Day a couple of years ago, then another with Weezer not long after, but I skipped out on both of them.

Greatest pop punk album ever- Through Being Cool
Greatest punk album ever - Can't Slow Down (later, London Calling)
Greatest acoustic ep ever - I'm Sorry I'm Leaving
Greatest misc album ever - Stay What You Are

The other: In Reverie

[Boy With A Problem]

Of course I'm always too late on these things - but this record rules. I'm really enjoying the song "Holiday" - and Billie Joe is either channeling Jello Biafra in the break of the song - or maybe it's Jello himself - These guys have the ability to rip off all the great punk/pop bands while retaining a ton of originality - great lyrics and nobody around today sings with a better sneer ("Don't give me none of that fool Billy Idol lip" - Mojo Nixon)

on the subject of an eralier post by Cope -

I thought TSOL sucked - neo-facist thrash metal bullies -

my favorite Orange County bands of that era were The Adolecents and Social Distortion (the first Adolescents record still holds up). It's kind of unfair to compare eras - I mean I love the Blasters as much as almost any band and it doesn't matter one bit that they came out and played in a 20 year old style - the Blasters beat the hell out of a whole lot of originals and I think Green Day does as well -

Green Day < Buzzcoks, Ramones

Green Day > Damned, Stranglers

just an old punks opinion - (maybe I was really a new waver - or a cowpunk - never a new romantic)

[King Hoarse]

I've seen Green Day live twice, on a festival before Dookie came out (and I was one of the few who'd actually bought their first two records on import in Sweden) and then a couple of years later supporting Bad Religion. They're one of the best sounding live bands I know (BJ is a great rhythm guitarist) and surprisingly fun to look at, considering they're a trio. On the first note of the first gig, the bass player ran out on stage and headed his mike into the audience, which opened his forehead for us to see. Then Billie Joe spit snot in the wound. So, punky attitude, poppy songs=good friendly violent fun for the whole family.

AI is my least favourite Green Day album, but Holiday and a couple of others are great. My friends who like them more than I do think it's their best, so they're probably right. They sure get points for trying in my book.

Some of my favourite punkish bands are/were snfu (their new album is incredible), the hard-ons, Stiff Little Fingers, Chemical People, Poison Idea, the Clash, I Spy, Dag Nasty, Bad Religion, nofx, Propagandhi, Agent Orange, Ramones, Down By Law, Dead Kennedys...and Rancid's best stuff is great too. I don't count the Pixies either.

I've wanted to check out the Minutemen for ten years, but no one I know has heard of them and the cheapest LP of theirs I've seen was $35.

[clairequilty]

POP HEAD...great comments. I totally agree! When I hear the word PUNK I expect it to be true to the style. The Replacements are one of the coolest bands I've heard, but still not what I would call Hard Core Punk. .

The Replacements not hard core punk. I disagree. Have you heard their first record, The Replacements Stink?

I saw em in 82, 83 and on, and believe me, they were punk (especially if punk includes vomitting in your beer glass on stage between songs, while wearing a dress).

Another punk band, Lemonheads. Listen to their first two records. Punk, Punk. Just because Evan Dando became the alterna-hunk of the early 90's don't mean they weren't/aren't punk.

[pophead2k]

I think of the 'Mats as a punk band in attitude, and you're right, Stink is punk. Their first album too (Sorry Ma....Forgot to take out the Trash). Customer, I Bought a Headache- all great.

[Boy With A Problem]

Fuck School Fuck School Fuck My Schoooooolll !!!!