Nick Cave: please explain

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:26 pm

Every 'Best of the year' list across the planet is duty bound to include the Lyre of Orpheus/Abattoir thingy (witness the list IP has cited in the EC section which TDM at 10 and the above at 1). Why? Is it really that good? It got such rave reviews, I was very close to a blind purchase, encouraged by SLL's assessment. Then I saw him on Later and realised I would rather listen to the Best of Kylie. He played There She Goes My Beautiful World, which I have on a couple of compilations too, and this is meant to represent the melodic side of the affair. The tune is average, if not lumbering, but the voice is hideous. I've got nothing against a non-singer if they sound good, but I just find his drone unpleasant and unengaging, genuinely hard to listen to. If I dislike this, would I really hate the rest of it? Or maybe the other way round? I'm very tempted to still get it to see if I can be converted, maybe it takes 10 listens. I tend to find if things are so critically celebrated, I can get a lot out of it, even if it doesn't appeal on a personal level, and some things do take repeated listens for me to get the whole point. I liked his cover of Neil Young's Helpless, and quite enjoyed him in the Wings of Desire, whatever that song was.

He has a very cool image, and, like Tom Waits, he's someone you can always feel cool about liking. (With the difference, for me, that Tom Waits is actually brilliant.) I just don't get it. Anyone agree with all this raving and keen to explain what I'm missing?

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:49 pm

"There She Goes..." is, to my ear, one of the weaker songs on Abattoir Blues. I wouldn't say that it represents the melodic side of the album, not at all. I haven't seen him perform it live, but he does certainly have one of those voices that takes some getting used to (the Waits comparison is apt). It sounds great on my little iPod (everything from a preacher shout to a bedroom whisper). The studio may do Cave's voice better justice than a spot on "Later" would. If I judged EC on his most recent (rather poor) performances on late night TV here in the States, I wouldn't exactly be running out to buy his albums. The bit he did on Jimmy Kimmel's show was atrocious.

I think there are a number of really fine songs on Abattoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus, including "Get Ready for Love", "Cannibal's Hymn", "Nature Boy", "Breathless", "Supernaturally". I liked it on the very first listen.

May just be a case of different strokes.

Post by **BlueChair** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:55 pm

I dunno, I like him.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:42 am

I don't own any proper Nick Cave but I blindly bought AB/LoO about 10 days ago because it was a tenner and I'm a sucker for double albums. (The same logic made me buy Wilco's "Being There" when it came out)

I've only listen to AB so far and I think it's great: fabulous sound and noise and I was struck by "There She Goes..." initially but the other stuff is getting to me now. I'll get round to the other half in time.

So I gives it the thumbs up...

DrJ

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:36 am

I agree entirely with the points made by WSS. I saw Nick Cave on the excellent 'Songwriter's Circle' a few years back...(why did they never do a new series??? It was gr8!)

...anyway, there were people like Neil Finn, Roddy Frame, Paul Heaton and John Martyn....really excellent singers who all knew how to hit a sweet note. I looked forward to hearing Nick Cave because I LOVE The only album of his I own - The Boatman's Call. Mrs Doofster is less keen.

When he started singing, I was more embarrassed than the time I 'followed through' at my best mate's b'day party. It wasn't 'gutsy' or 'rootsy'...it was terrible. Even his piano playing sounded like a constipated cat trying to take a dump.

Enough excrement analogies already !! They confuse the point.

Buy his studio stuff Otis....definitely an acquired taste, but does tend to grow on you. Just don't listen to him when your wife has just left you and you've discovered that 'DR' means overdrawn and not in the black. Nick Cave is not out there to cheer you up.

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:59 am

What I've heard of his early stuff is pretty ordinary. For ages he'd given me the impression he wasn't too unlike the pretentious Visual Communications students at the design school I went to. It all seemed to have an amateurish and self-conscious air of "I'm so clever and arty and misunderstood", that failed to inspire. Murder Ballads and The Boatman's Call are quite good and he seems to be getting better the older he gets and keeps getting recognition in his niche, but obviously he's never been in near the same league as say Tom Waits to whom he is waaaay too often compared. That's sort of like how Mellencamp is to Springsteen.

Tim(e) · Post by **Tim(e)** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:45 pm

bambooneedle wrote:What I've heard of his early stuff is pretty ordinary. For ages he'd given me the impression he wasn't too unlike the pretentious Visual Communications students at the design school I went to. It all seemed to have an amateurish and self-conscious air of "I'm so clever and arty and misunderstood", that failed to inspire. Murder Ballads and The Boatman's Call are quite good and he seems to be getting better the older he gets and keeps getting recognition in his niche, but obviously he's never been in near the same league as say Tom Waits to whom he is waaaay too often compared. That's sort of like how Mellencamp is to Springsteen.

If you think he is getting better with age, delve into his back catalogue and listen to Shivers from his Boys Next Door period... it is far and away one of his best songs (and there are numerous others as well).

I honestly cannot say I have ever heard him compared to Tom Waits (but I can understand why some people might do that) and it is certainly through no fault of his own if that does indeed happen.

Having seen both of them in concert a number of times, I would say that as a song-writer performer, Cave is easily in the same league as someone like Waits. He has an undeniable presence/charisma on stage that very few performers could boast of having.

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:28 pm

Jackson Monk wrote:I saw Nick Cave on the excellent 'Songwriter's Circle' a few years back...(why did they never do a new series??? It was gr8!) ...anyway, there were people like Neil Finn, Roddy Frame, Paul Heaton and John Martyn....really excellent singers who all knew how to hit a sweet note.

I remember that series - mid 90s? Three people in a row. Quite nerve-wracking for each one. Missed or wasn't paying attention to John Martyn, but would love to see him now! Don't recall Cave. Not sure which is the more hilarious: your descriptin of him, or you following through at the party (was this as a kid, or recently?).

Interesting words from all. May well check out 'the LP of the year' to see if it does it for me. I can't believe he'll ever rank anywhere near Tom Waits for me, but will listen without prejudice.

laughingcrow · Post by **laughingcrow** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:55 pm

Yeah, agree with the 'acquired taste' idea...I like him lyrically alot more than musically...I think the Waits and Martyns of this world are better though.

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:14 pm

Otis Westinghouse wrote:
Jackson Monk wrote:I saw Nick Cave on the excellent 'Songwriter's Circle' a few years back...(why did they never do a new series??? It was gr8!) ...anyway, there were people like Neil Finn, Roddy Frame, Paul Heaton and John Martyn....really excellent singers who all knew how to hit a sweet note.
I remember that series - mid 90s? Three people in a row. Quite nerve-wracking for each one. Missed or wasn't paying attention to John Martyn, but would love to see him now! Don't recall Cave. Not sure which is the more hilarious: your descriptin of him, or you following through at the party (was this as a kid, or recently?).

Interesting words from all. May well check out 'the LP of the year' to see if it does it for me. I can't believe he'll ever rank anywhere near Tom Waits for me, but will listen without prejudice.

I enjoy 'The Boatman's Call' more than any Tom Waits album...sorry folks...i know that there are alot of big TW fans on board...

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:06 am

Tim(e) wrote: If you think he is getting better with age, delve into his back catalogue and listen to Shivers from his Boys Next Door period... it is far and away one of his best songs (and there are numerous others as well).

I honestly cannot say I have ever heard him compared to Tom Waits (but I can understand why some people might do that) and it is certainly through no fault of his own if that does indeed happen.

Having seen both of them in concert a number of times, I would say that as a song-writer performer, Cave is easily in the same league as someone like Waits. He has an undeniable presence/charisma on stage that very few performers could boast of having.

Shivers was originally written by Rowland Howard for Rowland Howard's Young Charlatans in 1978 - it wasn't a Nick Cave song. Anyway, despite The Screaming Jets' poor cover, Nick's version wasn't brilliant. "I've been contemplating suicide...", big deal. Nick has been around so long that one might not realize how much of a copier he is. He copies Leonard Cohen a lot. But he's done alright for himself over the years, so good on him. Occassionally he comes up with good stuff, like Do You Love Me from Let Love In.

Never as good as Tom Waits on any level, though... ever. Compared to Waits, he's got the charisma of a fencepost. But it's not a comparison from which he could hope to fare well, so it's not his fault.

We must just agree to disagree.