Let Festivus begin!
(By the way, I can't believe anyone from Texas isn't used to hearing the phrase "...sucking the chrome off a ball hitch". I'm pretty sure it's a common saying in Texas, and it may have originated from there. As for Mexican whores, they do exist, so why can't they be mentioned? If someone told a Mexican prostitute that she could suck the chrome off of a ball hitch, she might not be as offended as you might think. So why should it offend you? Prostitution has been a fact on Earth for a very long time. Prostitutes exist on the planet. Why can't we talk about them?)
On Victimization
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noiseradio
- Posts: 2295
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:04 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
Rope,
The commonness of an expression is not the point. It was common in the deep south (and really, the north) to use the 'n' word to refer to African Americans. But it was wrong to so. And the point isn't so much the fact of talking about prostitutes as the degrading way in which the whole thing was phrased, as well as the misogynist and racist (not to mention classist) undertones. I'm sure you already know that, and this answer, like your question, is merely academic.
The commonness of an expression is not the point. It was common in the deep south (and really, the north) to use the 'n' word to refer to African Americans. But it was wrong to so. And the point isn't so much the fact of talking about prostitutes as the degrading way in which the whole thing was phrased, as well as the misogynist and racist (not to mention classist) undertones. I'm sure you already know that, and this answer, like your question, is merely academic.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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bambooneedle
- Posts: 4533
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:02 pm
- Location: a few thousand miles south east of Zanzibar
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Boy With A Problem
- Posts: 2718
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:41 pm
- Location: Inside the Pocket of a Clown
People -
Cope was never looking for any non-consenting adults to victimize sexually. Lighten up. The "Mexican Whore" on his Christmas list followed his wish for a bottle of tequila. I'm sure if he wanted a bottle of vodka, "Russian Whore" would have followed - 6 pack of Pabst and a "Milwaukee Whore" - etc. You guys take everything out of context.
"Sucking the chrome off a trailer hitch" and "Poontang" are funny expressions. They made me laugh - almost as hard as Bamboo's picture of Mr. Bean.
"... a hoity-toity john and want a highly skilled whore, stick to your enlightened, well-paid, health-insured Danish ones." was also pretty funny. - but Mug - you're jumping to the conclusion that well paid, highly skilled Mexican working girls don't exist. Interesting - would you find "Japanese Whore" or "Spanish Whore" equally racist? Or is "Mexican Whore" more racist because of the economic circumstances in Latin America? I certainly am not getting the impression that Cope is a racist. More problematic is his defense of Sting and the Grateful Dead.
Did you hear about the Polish hockey team?
They drowned during spring training.
Anyone offended?
I'm a little uncomfortable with the political correctness coming from Noise and Lipstick. I value their comments on music, literature, travel, love etc - but I admit that I there's a sense of "Here we go again" with the some of their "family values" posts.
Cope was never looking for any non-consenting adults to victimize sexually. Lighten up. The "Mexican Whore" on his Christmas list followed his wish for a bottle of tequila. I'm sure if he wanted a bottle of vodka, "Russian Whore" would have followed - 6 pack of Pabst and a "Milwaukee Whore" - etc. You guys take everything out of context.
"Sucking the chrome off a trailer hitch" and "Poontang" are funny expressions. They made me laugh - almost as hard as Bamboo's picture of Mr. Bean.
"... a hoity-toity john and want a highly skilled whore, stick to your enlightened, well-paid, health-insured Danish ones." was also pretty funny. - but Mug - you're jumping to the conclusion that well paid, highly skilled Mexican working girls don't exist. Interesting - would you find "Japanese Whore" or "Spanish Whore" equally racist? Or is "Mexican Whore" more racist because of the economic circumstances in Latin America? I certainly am not getting the impression that Cope is a racist. More problematic is his defense of Sting and the Grateful Dead.
Did you hear about the Polish hockey team?
They drowned during spring training.
Anyone offended?
I'm a little uncomfortable with the political correctness coming from Noise and Lipstick. I value their comments on music, literature, travel, love etc - but I admit that I there's a sense of "Here we go again" with the some of their "family values" posts.
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laughingcrow
- Posts: 2476
- Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:35 am
I think this can be settles quite easily...
Noise and Cope engage in a battle of online snap, Cope using playing cards with nudie ladies on the back, Noise using the traditional design playing cards...the loser has to wear a big sign saying ''x is the bestest and owns me'' and then has to whistle Yankee Doodle Dandy whilst standing one legged on a wonky chair in a thunderstorm with their naked posterior thrust into the wind for all to see. A picture of which is then posted onto a 'reader's husbands' website.
Anyone else agree?
Noise and Cope engage in a battle of online snap, Cope using playing cards with nudie ladies on the back, Noise using the traditional design playing cards...the loser has to wear a big sign saying ''x is the bestest and owns me'' and then has to whistle Yankee Doodle Dandy whilst standing one legged on a wonky chair in a thunderstorm with their naked posterior thrust into the wind for all to see. A picture of which is then posted onto a 'reader's husbands' website.
Anyone else agree?
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noiseradio
- Posts: 2295
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:04 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
BWAP,
I'm sorry my posts make you feel uncomfortable. I think it's funny that you use terms like "politically correct" and "family values"--two terms that have so much hyperbolic political spin to them as to be virtually meaningless, but which are nevertheless employed with all too much regularity.
All,
For the record, I explicitly said that Cope was free to post what he wanted, but that I would feel free to react. People act like I'm asking Taz and Blue Chair to ban the guy, which I have never done. I made a comment, he asked me to explain what prompted the comment (and he asked for an honest answer), so I tried to give him one. It led to quite an exchange, and some people grew tired of reading it. So skip it. I skip the footy thread every day, as I care not a wit about football (from either continent). But to categorize the comments that have been made as "noise and lipstick's" just because we're married and are basically on the same page ignores the fact that several others have expressed the same sentiments. People have been parsing phrases like "mexican whore" and "trailer hitch" instead of focusing on the central issue at hand, which is respect. And in a community based solely on words, the words you use are really important. People don't like to be told that something they've said is offensive, but neither do people like being offended. Evidently, some don't like me to talk about what offends me. I don't like to hear derogatory comments about different races, ethnicities, women and Christians. And I'll say so when I damn well please.
I'm sorry my posts make you feel uncomfortable. I think it's funny that you use terms like "politically correct" and "family values"--two terms that have so much hyperbolic political spin to them as to be virtually meaningless, but which are nevertheless employed with all too much regularity.
All,
For the record, I explicitly said that Cope was free to post what he wanted, but that I would feel free to react. People act like I'm asking Taz and Blue Chair to ban the guy, which I have never done. I made a comment, he asked me to explain what prompted the comment (and he asked for an honest answer), so I tried to give him one. It led to quite an exchange, and some people grew tired of reading it. So skip it. I skip the footy thread every day, as I care not a wit about football (from either continent). But to categorize the comments that have been made as "noise and lipstick's" just because we're married and are basically on the same page ignores the fact that several others have expressed the same sentiments. People have been parsing phrases like "mexican whore" and "trailer hitch" instead of focusing on the central issue at hand, which is respect. And in a community based solely on words, the words you use are really important. People don't like to be told that something they've said is offensive, but neither do people like being offended. Evidently, some don't like me to talk about what offends me. I don't like to hear derogatory comments about different races, ethnicities, women and Christians. And I'll say so when I damn well please.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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Boy With A Problem
- Posts: 2718
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:41 pm
- Location: Inside the Pocket of a Clown
Noise -
Who exactly do you mean by "they"? I'm not representing any group here, just myself.
I think you can be overly pc at times, and I'm bothered by that. Perhaps uncomfortable was the wrong word to use.
By all means, keep on posting whatever you like (acknowledging my opinion has little bearing on what you'd post, nor should it) - I've never felt abused, victimized or offended by any of your messages, I just disagree with many of them.
I'm feeling like you're jumping on Cope rather harshly - and Noise, c'mon - you're relentless in your responses to folks who offer opinions that are contrary to yours - and that can be frustrating.
Who exactly do you mean by "they"? I'm not representing any group here, just myself.
I think you can be overly pc at times, and I'm bothered by that. Perhaps uncomfortable was the wrong word to use.
By all means, keep on posting whatever you like (acknowledging my opinion has little bearing on what you'd post, nor should it) - I've never felt abused, victimized or offended by any of your messages, I just disagree with many of them.
I'm feeling like you're jumping on Cope rather harshly - and Noise, c'mon - you're relentless in your responses to folks who offer opinions that are contrary to yours - and that can be frustrating.
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Boy With A Problem
- Posts: 2718
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:41 pm
- Location: Inside the Pocket of a Clown
For the record -
my post above is in response to a previous post by Noise that was pulled and replaced by the one that now appears above my response (if you follow me) - because some of what I said in my response now doesn't make much sense, specifically my reference to "they".
Noise's initial response wasn't up for very long and I'm sure he had no idea I was typing a reply as he was rethinking what he'd said - not that it was radically different than what is there now - it just kind of makes me look more nonsensical than usual.
my post above is in response to a previous post by Noise that was pulled and replaced by the one that now appears above my response (if you follow me) - because some of what I said in my response now doesn't make much sense, specifically my reference to "they".
Noise's initial response wasn't up for very long and I'm sure he had no idea I was typing a reply as he was rethinking what he'd said - not that it was radically different than what is there now - it just kind of makes me look more nonsensical than usual.
Everyone just needs to fuckin’ relax. Smoke more weed, the world is ending.
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A rope leash
- Posts: 1835
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:47 pm
- Location: southern misery, USA
Cyber tavern
Sometimes I think of this board in the same way I would the corner bar. If somebody mouths-off and gets their ass kicked, then so be it.
It happens all the time. Once in a while, law enforcement gets involved.
Whaddaryagonnado?
It happens all the time. Once in a while, law enforcement gets involved.
Whaddaryagonnado?
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noiseradio
- Posts: 2295
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:04 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
BWAP,
I wasn't directing any "they" statements at you specifically. What I addressed to you alone I meant for you alone--that I'm sorry I made you uncomfortable, but that I'm not sure I agree with your categorizations. No big deal. The bulk of that last post was an attempt to clarify some points for a lot of people, so I addressed them to all. I think the only one in there that directly bears on you is the bit about "noise and lipstick," and all I'm saying there is that PC or not, I don't think we're alone.
I don't think I've been too hard on Cope. I think I answered his question and then when he raised various objections, I answered those, too. But I confess to being persistent in trying to prove my point, not just here but most everywhere. (The one you should pity there isn't Cope; it's Lipstick.) That's something for me to work on.
I wasn't directing any "they" statements at you specifically. What I addressed to you alone I meant for you alone--that I'm sorry I made you uncomfortable, but that I'm not sure I agree with your categorizations. No big deal. The bulk of that last post was an attempt to clarify some points for a lot of people, so I addressed them to all. I think the only one in there that directly bears on you is the bit about "noise and lipstick," and all I'm saying there is that PC or not, I don't think we're alone.
I don't think I've been too hard on Cope. I think I answered his question and then when he raised various objections, I answered those, too. But I confess to being persistent in trying to prove my point, not just here but most everywhere. (The one you should pity there isn't Cope; it's Lipstick.) That's something for me to work on.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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noiseradio
- Posts: 2295
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:04 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
PS Sorry about that, BWAP. I didn't mean to confuse. My initial response was basically a flip version of what stands there now. I decided that you had raised serious points and that they deserved a serious answer. But, as you say, the substance was basically the same.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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selfmademug
Qualifier: I reply to this one point cause I feel strongly about it; overall I think all is well around here; it's healthy discussion, and Lipstick was respectful enough to take it off another thread, and no one needs to read it, much less engage it, if they don't want to.. End of story. Now, my one point:
Yup, I think it is. More denegrating than racist strictly speaking, but I don't think it's an accident, either, that the poorest and most exploited workers, including and perhaps especially sex workers, are what we here would call people of color. I'm very much in favor of legalized prostitution, where the worker gets pay for skill and experience, and is protected on the job,and gets benefits off the job. I'd say the same of all jobs and workers. Sex work ain''t the worst but it's pretty bad in most places, and the poorer the person rendering the services, the worse the conditions are, and vice versa, cause that's the nature of exploitation. An interesting question, this stuff.Boy With A Problem wrote: Mug - you're jumping to the conclusion that well paid, highly skilled Mexican working girls don't exist. Interesting - would you find "Japanese Whore" or "Spanish Whore" equally racist? Or is "Mexican Whore" more racist because of the economic circumstances in Latin America?
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Copenhagen Fan
- Posts: 1192
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:00 am
- Location: København, DK
- Contact:
HEEEEEEY Self MADE....don't make assumptions of my attitudes based on one sentence! I love Mexico and Mexicans....my parents live in Mexico and I have spent a lot of my life there....the choice of Mexican whore was meant as a compliment! I was just being nostalgic.
Now, as for prostitution....I don't pay for sex, as I think it is degrading for myself to pay someone to spend time with me, let alone "let me" touch them in a sexual way. YES prostitutes are exploited, and a legalization of prostitution cleans things up a bit. Economic hardship and desparation are major causes of prostitution. I have of course met women in Denmark who were part time call girls, who did it because it was easy money (in their opinion) and they could buy cool things. So, prostitution as a choice is ok, but not out of desparation....I'm in 100% agreement with you! By the way, I do not think that prostitution is imoral if the women (or men) choose it as a profession. On the contrary....one must realize that JOHN's are also victims!!! They get conned in a way......! A number of my friends are prostitutes in Denmark....they laugh at the pathetic men who visit them.......they call them "french fries".(Or freedom fries for the patriotic)...I don't know why.....please don't jump to conclusions!!! Words are words...they are powerful, but they also should create discussion....food for thought....debate......they should provoke.....we can't sit back and act as if this stuff does not exist.....it will never go away and should it???
Now, as for prostitution....I don't pay for sex, as I think it is degrading for myself to pay someone to spend time with me, let alone "let me" touch them in a sexual way. YES prostitutes are exploited, and a legalization of prostitution cleans things up a bit. Economic hardship and desparation are major causes of prostitution. I have of course met women in Denmark who were part time call girls, who did it because it was easy money (in their opinion) and they could buy cool things. So, prostitution as a choice is ok, but not out of desparation....I'm in 100% agreement with you! By the way, I do not think that prostitution is imoral if the women (or men) choose it as a profession. On the contrary....one must realize that JOHN's are also victims!!! They get conned in a way......! A number of my friends are prostitutes in Denmark....they laugh at the pathetic men who visit them.......they call them "french fries".(Or freedom fries for the patriotic)...I don't know why.....please don't jump to conclusions!!! Words are words...they are powerful, but they also should create discussion....food for thought....debate......they should provoke.....we can't sit back and act as if this stuff does not exist.....it will never go away and should it???
I'd never leave the house if I had a Gimp
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Goody2Shoes
- Posts: 1301
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:24 pm
- Location: bouncing over a white cloud
Please allow me the luxury of a few inarticulate comments:
I think that too much power is granted to "words" here. Since, for the most part, no one amongst us has the power to confirm that any of the others actually believes or acts in accordance with the "image" presented, I don't feel like the words have the power to add or detract. Others have pointed out that on an anonymous board, each of us can be whomever we choose. Therefore, while I feel that some comments, and not just in reference to this thread, are less than diplomatic, I just can't get my panties in a twist about them. I might not find them humorous, and I might find some of the downright offensive, but I have to choose to expend energy in directions more productive than trying to persuade imaginary people, because that's what we really are in this cyber-realm, that they are abusing me. I have seen very little of what I would consider personal attacks. Some don't see it this way, and I respect that.
Ignoring bad behavior is not the same as condoning it. Sometimes, the best way to extinguish bad behavior is to withold the secondary gain.
I think that too much power is granted to "words" here. Since, for the most part, no one amongst us has the power to confirm that any of the others actually believes or acts in accordance with the "image" presented, I don't feel like the words have the power to add or detract. Others have pointed out that on an anonymous board, each of us can be whomever we choose. Therefore, while I feel that some comments, and not just in reference to this thread, are less than diplomatic, I just can't get my panties in a twist about them. I might not find them humorous, and I might find some of the downright offensive, but I have to choose to expend energy in directions more productive than trying to persuade imaginary people, because that's what we really are in this cyber-realm, that they are abusing me. I have seen very little of what I would consider personal attacks. Some don't see it this way, and I respect that.
Ignoring bad behavior is not the same as condoning it. Sometimes, the best way to extinguish bad behavior is to withold the secondary gain.
It's a radiation vibe I'm groovin' on
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Misha
- Posts: 733
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:59 pm
- Location: Northern Cold England, and Los Angeles, CA
Hasn't this conversation been done to death by now? Let it go, or go get some therapy....all of you, your problems can't be fixed here. It's a bulletin board for Pete's sake, not the end all be all of the planet. Buy a vowel!!
Bamboo.....THAT WAS LAUGH OUT LOUD FUNNY!! I HAD TEARS IN MY FREAKIN EYES!!!
VG, your throne has been toppled.
Bamboo.....THAT WAS LAUGH OUT LOUD FUNNY!! I HAD TEARS IN MY FREAKIN EYES!!!
VG, your throne has been toppled.
Where are the strong?
Who are the trusted?
Who are the trusted?
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Copenhagen Fan
- Posts: 1192
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- Location: København, DK
- Contact:
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Boy With A Problem
- Posts: 2718
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- Location: Inside the Pocket of a Clown
KAOS is the sinister organization run by Siegfried (Bernie Koppel also Doc on the Love Boat and Donald Hollinger's co-worker and earlier Ann Marie's neighbor on That Girl!) . Their arch enemies are the agents of CONTROL (led by the Chief and his star agent Maxwell Smart (Agent 86) and Max's love interest Agent 99).
I'm not sure how you fit in here either Misha.
I'm not sure how you fit in here either Misha.
Everyone just needs to fuckin’ relax. Smoke more weed, the world is ending.
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mood swung
- Posts: 6908
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Copenhagen Fan
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- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:00 am
- Location: København, DK
- Contact:
nice -
Copenhagen Fan
- Posts: 1192
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:00 am
- Location: København, DK
- Contact: