RIP Ronald Reagan

clairequilty · Post by **clairequilty** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:56 pm

I apologize for Reagan's entire presidency.

Let's put the wall back up and call it even.

ice nine · Post by **ice nine** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:29 am

There are two subject matters where arguments are fruitless: religion and politics.

Some people didn't like Reagan, some don't like Clinton. They each had good and bad.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:01 am

Yeah, I hate when the board is let off of its political leash.

Opinions fly, and hilarity ensues.

I like to think of things this way... "big deal." Or, this way... "in 100 years, I'll be dead."

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:49 am

EL VEZ...I admit I'm not nailing Nordic chicks any more, I have a girlfriend! And that has been for over a year, which of course means that she now enjoys my company so much that she just likes to have girly chats with me, instead of having sex! SO NO....I'm not "nailing" anything but my right paw! (unless I am a good slave boy and clean the house and wash her delicates by hand! .....if I am lucky). No more bragging from me....I am nothing more than a wage earning house pet!

and.....MARIA...the answer to your question is NATIONALISM, the most powerful political tool in the world for making the FOLK do the dirty work for an opressive and self interest riddled political agenda!

Pov · Post by **Pov** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:32 am

maria wrote:As an outsider, I can't understand is why there isn't a greater populist outcry in the US against this terrible war. To state the obvious, aside from the unfortunate Iraqis, it your US citizens, mainly young with a whole lot to contribute to their undoubtedly wonderful, vibrant nation than to be chewed up by a futile, botched, unjustifable war. When the early days of the war passed with no sign of the weapons of mass destruction, it seemed clear that it had all been a very unbrilliant mistake. Perhaps we're missing the outrage at this end of the world, but why aren't people demonstrating on the streets all through the US, as happned with Vietnam, at having their country's might so abused? What about the families who've already suffered losses? Aren't they white-hot with rage at having loved ones needlessly taken from them? Is it blind faith or apathy that allows such obvious doubt to be cast on the good name of the most powerful nation in the world? Are people simply waiting for their chance to express their rage in the next election? If this threat were to happen on my doorstep, I'd be chaining myself to railings and unfurling protest banners...

I believe that most people here in the US truly believe that, despite everything, we are actually doing some good over there. If the handover of power is a not a success (and what will constitute success is not yet defined) then I think you will see Bush voted out of office by a large majority.

maria · Post by **maria** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:05 am

Nationalism, eh? Here in Ireland it’s found at its most passionate furthest away from any actual fighting. Bars are a great spot for nationalism, I find. Just another way of slaughtering a few braincells I suppose. As an irishwoman I know better than most that most people mean well and just want to get on with their lives as best they can.

But in the spirit of free-booting capitalism, I’m sure Elvis would be the first to tell you that you’re only as good as your last record. We all have reason to be grateful to the US in the past. But you've got to keep questioning everything to make sure they're getting it right. Whether you love or hate Reagan you can do nothing about him now, but Bush …. Well, it’s not my call. I’m not a US citizen. But he certainly has a very peculiar idea of ridding the world of evil. Even here in Ireland we’ve been drawn into the Bush/US diplomatic experience and we really don’t like it: “facilitate the servicing of our warplanes or else…” And what the hell does any of this have to do with 9/11 anyway?

By the way, I’d say even EC would run dry if he couldn’t write about politics and religion? There’s love, certainly, but not enough, by all accounts (what’s so funny bout.., etc)

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:11 am

Maria...don'¨t you think that the IRA is nationalsitic????

I guess almost everything is settled in a bar in Ireland!

(even though no smoking is allowed!)

For the record, I find many Irish-Americans to be more patriotic about Ireland than the REAL Irish

El Vez · Post by **El Vez** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:27 am

Ice Nine -

In general, I agree with you that when religion and politics come up on the board it usually degenerates into a Fox News type format where two polarized (and polarizing) viewpoints yell for attention and then break for a light lunch at Spago's before capillaries start bursting.

Having said that, I think that a lot of people on this board were so offended by the "Get the fuck out" comment that they felt obligated to chime in. That class acts such as Bobster and Pip (who normally steer clear of our little re-enactments of Hannity & Colmes' latest episode) posted in response speaks volumes about just how abrasive that statement really was.

I do apologize for my part in extending the circle jerk, though.

WHAR -

This board is probably not the ideal place for you (or anyone for that matter) to develop and nurture your political conscience but you should definitely start defining your political beliefs and your understanding of how we as the human race got to where we are now. You are of voting age now and kinda have that responsibility thrust upon you. Otherwise, the apathy that you have now will play right into every future demagogue's hands.

SoLikeCandy · Post by **SoLikeCandy** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:27 am

Okay...maybe I'm being a Debbie Dumbass here, but who is SJN, anyway? I have an idea...just want to know if I'm right or not...

maria · Post by **maria** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:31 am

It's possibly partly BECAUSE of the IRA's hijacking of the concept of Irish nationalism that I have difficulty with the concept of nationalism full stop. There's an awful lot of palmed off in the name of isms. But I do admit to missing the smoke in the pubs. Aside from anything else, its exit has unveiled a lot of other nasty smells.

Stripped Jack Naked · Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:21 pm

Stripped Jack Naked is Mr. Average. I have outed myself.

After my last series of posts (about one month ago) I made a decision to withdraw from the board and invest my God-given talents and skills where they would make a difference. My input within this forum was, in my opinion, counterproductive because my strong opinions ( and the spiteful messages that they stimulated from the "Hate America" crowd ) were working to catapult young posters to the far left...because it just seemed 'cooler' to be there. I will save you the rationale and the proof.

Restated, my opinions caused more discord and dissonance than honest debate. Those of you who have known me have seen my opinion swayed by thoughtful discussions and intellegent discourse played out in the Annex. But that died. So the reason to stay aboard was reduced to the information about the Artist only, and those posts had become (with the exception of the Foyle's contributions) inane at best and mind-numbing at the worst. So I thought I would save everyone the trouble (especially me) and depart.

When I tried to return to monitor the board, as Mr. Average, my screen name. Mr. Average, was no longer recognized. My password was purged. I sent THREE (3) messages to the administrator, using the email address found attached to his profile. All three were unanswered. In the event that I was making a mistake, I tried every combination of Mr. Average screen name and password that I have ever, ever used. All dead. Censored. Deleted for my views.

I am sure that it will be said that I screwed up, and even BlueChair alluded to the possibility that there was no sinister intent to exclude my views. But the fact remains, I was disconnected by either purging my password, changing it, or disallowing posts from Mr. Average. So I now understand the left control on the board. I accept it. It makes most of the participants 'feel better' to hear only what they want and not have to face the issues that I present. That's fine. Censor me out. I really have no business contributing where my contributions are roundly ridiculed and...censored outright.

You folks should be aware of this. Narbawlz would have been disgusted by this control. But I accept it, and will move on.

Oh, and for the record. Stripped Jack Naked was an old screen name that I generated about a year ago when I couldn't get onto the forum one day. It has been mostly dormant, as you can easily see by the number and dates of the posts.

But when I felt the vitriole aimed at a leader with the courage to try to change the face of the world...knowing full well that his policies would make many 'feel sad', but standing by his convictions, I became literally incensed.

Bobster, I apologize for upsetting you so. I have such a respect for you and your thoughts. Although I consider you far left, you have done more constructively to move my politics closer to the center by your always thoughtful posts.

I stand by my statement (I did not make it up). If certain posters here are residents of the USA, and you hate this country so damn much (whether you fly a flag or not!!!), then find the country with whom your ideals resonate, and go there. If you are so embarrassed, so disgusted by this country, why are you here?

I think I know. Because it is a "feel good" country. It is easier than many other countries. Because you CAN shit all over it and not get thrown in jail. Even with Homeland Security and the Patriot Act! It is sooo convenient. It is, on the other hand, difficult to face the fact that not all the decisions made by the leaders of this country are good ones. And still look a little bit deeper and try to see the good intent, and the impact that today's policies might have on future generations.

What was it that Chirac said yesterday about the United Sates of America?

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:22 pm

It's quite easy to think that because I disagree with you and with the political Right that I hate this country. But it's illogical, to say nothing of false. I love this country, it stands for things that define my very sense of morality. Just because those are not the same things that define your morality does not give you sole claim to love of country. You will notice I have not asked you to leave the country or state that "We" don't want you here. In my love of country, I stand strong against things which, in my opinion, run contrary to sayings such as "liberty and justice for all." Sue me if you don't like it.

It's quite amusing being called the 'far left.' In my job I am curently fighting a group that paints me as a complacent facist in bed with 'The Man'. That is as facile and manipulative as saying I "hate America first". But ultimately it doesn't matter. I just go on believing what I do, and doing what I can to make things better.

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:21 pm

right on Self Made! Well stated point!

The United States is based on Locke's principal that it is not only the right of the people to overthrow a tyranical government, but their DUTY. Oppossing the "policies" of the Governement does not make one anti-American....on the contrary.

Right now, our "Government" is being tyranical, and acting in a number of imoral and anti American ways!!!!! We are not the good guys right now. Isn't that what American policies should be based upon? Of course all countries act in their own self interest, but it is not in the interests of the U.S. to ruin their own credibility. Americans look like IDIOTS to the whole of Europe right now...........very sad indeed. When you're the most powerful nation in the history of the world you have a responsibilty to act like the guardian of human rights and democratic values.

Just a thought.............if a CEO of a major corporation had a situation where illegal things were happening, the U.S. government would imply a duty that forced him or her to take responsibilty whether or not they had actual knowledge of the events. If you don't do your due dilligence and something goes wrong, it's your own fault. That is the government's attitude in relation to business crimes. Now Bush and the rest of the boys have to take responsibilty for not doing anything about the horrible things going on in Iraq. OUT with them all. Accountability!

Jeezz...they almost impeached Clinton for jamming a cigar in a snatch and lying about it...........how do the crimes of Bush stack up against that?

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:40 pm

maria wrote:But I do admit to missing the smoke in the pubs. Aside from anything else, its exit has unveiled a lot of other nasty smells.

Diverting the theme from cigars in snatches for a moment, and reverting to smoke in pubs, can I just say that the smoke-free Irish pubs are a joy to behold? It's an incredibly brave move, and it's working. I'd rather a few Guinness-flavoured farts than having my clothes reeking of fags the next day and my body poisoned by passive inhalation. I spent three hours in a crowded and lively pub last night, and my clothes still smell of daisies. Everyone knows that smoking is wrong enough to only be done outside by the naughty children who want to continue. I love this progressive element to Ireland, and swear the rest of Europe will follow suit before too long. Another great one is outlawing plastic bags.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:48 pm

Cop, I love your use of the term "snatch".

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:01 am

WHAR..you should use it in one of your songs!!!!!!!

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:03 am

Odie Westinghouse.....Norway is also taking the same measures! It will never happen in Denmark without a revolution!

Post by **BlueChair** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:09 am

Otis Westinghouse wrote: Diverting the theme from cigars in snatches for a moment, and reverting to smoke in pubs, can I just say that the smoke-free Irish pubs are a joy to behold? It's an incredibly brave move, and it's working. I'd rather a few Guinness-flavoured farts than having my clothes reeking of fags the next day and my body poisoned by passive inhalation. I spent three hours in a crowded and lively pub last night, and my clothes still smell of daisies. Everyone knows that smoking is wrong enough to only be done outside by the naughty children who want to continue. I love this progressive element to Ireland, and swear the rest of Europe will follow suit before too long. Another great one is outlawing plastic bags.

Toronto's restaurants have been smoke free since 2000, and finally, as of June 1, 2004, so have bars. For the first time, I went to a bar on Saturday night and came home not reeking of cigarette smoke. It was a gorgeous feeling.