early bugs!

Pretty self-explanatory
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Ymaginatif
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early bugs!

Post by Ymaginatif »

Since Elvis himself is so inclined to point out his influences, here's one that I only just now picked up:

Have a listen to what Jim Keltner contributed to this 1987 Ry Cooder song :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZb2K9 ... oder-Topic
Neil.
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Neil. »

Wow - so did the MLAR song use a sample? It sounds exactly the same!
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Ymaginatif
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Ymaginatif »

Neil. wrote:Wow - so did the MLAR song use a sample? It sounds exactly the same!
The CD booklet says that Elvis composed the song 'over a series of drum and tuned percussion loops assembled in advance by Jim Keltner'. Which is true, Jim Keltner is credited for it on the Ry Cooder album.
Did Jim Keltner create the same thing twice? Or did he recycle and fail to tell Elvis it was used before? I have no idea ...
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Neil. »

Sounds like it was all out in the open as a known loop!
Hawksmoor
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Hawksmoor »

It's an endless source of curiosity to me - this thing about the bits of a track that backing musicians contribute, and the credit they get for that. I note that 'Hurry Down Doomsday' is indeed credited to 'Costello/Keltner', but that - for example - Bruce Thomas doesn't get a credit for the bassline on 'Chelsea', which is one of the song's defining characteristics!
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Ymaginatif »

Hawksmoor wrote:It's an endless source of curiosity to me - this thing about the bits of a track that backing musicians contribute, and the credit they get for that. I note that 'Hurry Down Doomsday' is indeed credited to 'Costello/Keltner', but that - for example - Bruce Thomas doesn't get a credit for the bassline on 'Chelsea', which is one of the song's defining characteristics!
I assume that because Ry Cooder gave Keltner part of the credit in his song for creating this drumloop, Elvis had, legally, no choice but to do the same. That drumloop was copyrighted!
Funny, because I always used to think it had been uncharacteristically 'generous' of him to include the drummer in the royalties check.

Bruce's missing out on any credits for the Chelsea bassline is criminal. Our copyryght system that favours solely the (perceived) author of a song (or its purchaser) is extremely flawed and hugely unfair to a great number of people.
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Re: early bugs!

Post by verbal gymnastics »

Bruce should also get a credit for the outro of Shabby Doll.
Who’s this kid with his mumbo jumbo?
Hawksmoor
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Hawksmoor »

Sorry, accidental double-post.
Last edited by Hawksmoor on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Hawksmoor »

Ymaginatif wrote:Bruce's missing out on any credits for the Chelsea bassline is criminal. Our copyryght system that favours solely the (perceived) author of a song (or its purchaser) is extremely flawed and hugely unfair to a great number of people.
I guess it's a tricky one. Most singer-songwriters would presumably argue that they wrote the lyrics and the melody, and then paid a backing band to play the tune they were given. After that, you're into very, very complicated arguments about the extent to which a particular piece of the instrumentation or the arrangement was 'created' by a particular musician. Particularly if - like most groups - you spend some time together in the studio, collectively knocking the song into shape.

If you're going to give Bruce a credit for the 'Chelsea' bassline, you've really got to give Steve a credit for 'Oliver's Army' and Pete a credit for 'Beyond Belief'...and on it goes. Ringo doesn't get a credit for 'I Saw Her Standing There' (quite rightly) but should he get a credit for 'Rain'? And so on. It's a veritable minefield.

On top of which, if you look on YouTube for the short video where Bruce explains how he came up with the 'Chelsea' bassline, he pretty much admits that he nicked the basic idea from John Entwistle. :lol:
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Re: early bugs!

Post by Neil. »

I don't think it's to do with copyright law necessarily. I think it's accepted that a song is written by a writer, then given to a band to play. There'd be no song without the writer - so consequently there'd be on no bassline, drum part, keyboard solo...

However, some bands have made a deal whereby the entire band gets credit - e.g. Blur. Pulp have 'Music by Pulp. Lyrics by Jarvis Cocker.'

It's definitely a complicated issue. I believe Elvis is an extremely generous bandleader in terms of wages (even Bruce has admitted that in a recent interview!) so he clearly values the contributions of his fellow musicians.

But I don't think it's fair to say that Bruce, Pete, Steve or Davey wrote the song. They did contribute of course to the arrangement - magically and memorably so - but without Elvis's original melody, chord pattern and lyrics, there'd be nothing.

It sounds like he compensates them for their amazing contribution to his songs. It would be v tricky to negotiate per song how much each member contributed. I think a blanket credit for the whole band feels unfair on the actual writer of the song.
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